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Epicurus on God

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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
-- Epicurus


Discuss.

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The canned answer of the faithful will boil down to free will.

No longer good enough for me.

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Faith.

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Maybe is our Father, but He abandoned us, He's delinquent in child support, yet still demands we love and trust Him just because He is our dad.

Or as is actually the case, the kids still hold out hope he's not a total jerk and someday He is going to win the lottery and take care of us forever and love us again.

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You can be a total jackass for a lifetime, have a deathbed change of heart (as long as it is "genuine" acceptance of JC) and still be saved.

Meanwhile, Ghandi burns.

Whatever.

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If people did the crap they do in his name....hell I would abondon people.

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[quote name='Sigmund the Sea Monster']Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
-- Epicurus


Discuss.[/quote]

I went to church with my parents last Sunday, and the minister read a similar version of this and tried to address it. It basically boiled down to what Epi said earlier about free will. I wasn't very impressed by the response. Not convincing enough for me.

And I really just can't get over how this whole Eternal Salvation thing is almost entirely predicated on where you're born and what your parents believe.

That's the thing that makes me think it's all bullsh*t.

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^Indeed.

Which is the call for evangelism (in some religions, in others you don't have a chance no matter what you do), so all can hear the good news and be saved.

The problems arise when people say "no thanks".
At that point, you either get to burn in eternity for a seemingly inconsequential crime of questioning "authority", or need to be killed for your lack of acceptance if the group is radical.

Pass.

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Yup.

When all is said and done, it still all boils down to the fact that if you want to be religious, you must accept the idea that you are going to believe in something that has no rational foundation or tangibility. The idea of having "faith" to me is nothing more than believing in something that is completely subjective, arbitrary and impossible to prove.

That flies in the face of my desire to be a rational person.

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Well said.

I would only add that you also have to embrace the concept that other religions are completely "crazy", and laugh at the millions of followers of the other religions for being so "misguided".

Which is smart, since the propagation of the religious meme requires the in-group/out-group phenomenon in order to survive and really take off.

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All we are is dust in the wind

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Kansas?

bleh

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You're my boy Blue!!!

You're my boy.

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That's what old people do. They die.

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[quote name='Epistaxis']Well said.

I would only add that you also have to embrace the concept that other religions are completely "crazy", and laugh at the millions of followers of the other religions for being so "misguided".

Which is smart, since the propagation of the religious meme requires the in-group/out-group phenomenon in order to survive and really take off.[/quote]

Nice response. Very toit.

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Like a toiger.

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When we die, we all go to heaven. It's just really dark and musty. And 6 feet below ground.

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I am so glad noone is biting on this, that in itself is a relief. I will continue to pray for you guys.

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[quote name='tattoorhino']I am so glad noone is biting on this, that in itself is a relief. [/quote]

Bite on what? I think they're quite valid questions

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Why would anyone "bite" on this? Simple logic cannot be argued against with "faith". You either have it or you don't. Come to think of it, that concept seems fatally flawed as well - If we are going to hell for not believing, and we do not believe because we have the capacity to understand logic and apply reason, and God gave us this capacity to understand logic and apply reason....wow my head is going to explode.

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Valid questions in which all of you have the answers you want to believe in. Same as the answers i want to believe in. A topic that has been discussed to death and if we were all on a level playing field it would be ok, but the Christian perspective on here no matter how valid it might be doesnt hold any weight with most of you so a intelligent discussion is useless. NONE OF US HAS THE CORRECT ANSWER. Im ok with that, Im sorry you guys always start these when your bored and you really wouldnt want a intelligent answer anyway.

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One day people in the future may well look back on me like I do those people from Mesoamerica that worshiped flying snakes. I'm ok with that.

But for right now just as I choose to believe that the speed of light is an unbreakable barrier, time travel is impossible, my dog loves me, and we are the only civilization that has ever existed on this rock; I believe in God.


Its funny how its the last one that makes me somehow less rational in some folks eyes.

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People don't fly airplanes into towers over the speed of light, time travel, doggie love, or ancient aliens.

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[quote name='cookinwithgas']People don't fly airplanes into towers over the speed of light, time travel, doggie love, or ancient aliens.[/quote]

So they really got 72 virgins?

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I always wonder why people of faith take an attempt at rational deconstruction of religion(not even their own, just the existence of god) as a personal attack. As if it is taboo to question, ridicule, even make outright fun of religion. Why?

I know I used to feel that way, no matter how calm I tried to be.
I always felt like "THEY JUST DON'T GET IT, THEY CAN'T KNOW JOY".

Perhaps on this board, a few noisy non-believers like myself dominate these dicussions.
I assure you, IRL, this is not the case.
In fact, IRL, the atheist is like a man with a second head on his shoulders.
Weird as hell.

The sensitivity of religious discussion and deconstruction does explain how it can boil the blood hot enough to do bad things to the non-believer over though, doesn't it?

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