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Paul Ryan

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[quote name='SgtJ00']Lol, you think that's pompous?

:confused:[/QUOTE]

You're also of the opinion that we, the United States, aren't socialist because we're all racists?

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[quote name='g5jamz']You're also of the opinion that we, the United States, aren't socialist because we're all racists?[/QUOTE]

wow. not even close to what he said.

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[quote name='g5jamz']You're also of the opinion that we, the United States, aren't socialist because we're all racists?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='mmmbeans']wow. not even close to what he said.[/QUOTE]

^ This

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I'm paraphrasing because he adds nuance.

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[quote name='g5jamz']I'm paraphrasing because he adds nuance.[/QUOTE]

:svengo:

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back on the subject...

[url]http://www.slate.com/id/2290509/[/url]

Jacob Weisberg...NPR dude...co-author with Robert Rubin...

he's got an opinion on Ryan's endeavor.

[quote]For the past 30 years, Republicans have been hypocrites about spending. They've raged against big government without ever proposing the kinds of cuts necessary to bring federal expenditures in line with tax revenues. Democrats have been more fiscally responsible, producing an actual budget surplus during Bill Clinton's second term. But they've been little better than Republicans when it comes to confronting the nation's long-term fiscal imbalance, which is driven by the projected growth in entitlement spending.
[/quote]

now that that's out of the way...

[quote]If the GOP gets behind his proposals in a serious way, it will become for the first time in modern memory an intellectually serious party—one with a coherent vision to match its rhetoric of limited government. Democrats are within their rights to point out the negative effects of Ryan's proposed cuts on future retirees, working families, and the poor. He was not specific about many of his cuts, and Democrats have a political opportunity in filling in the blanks. But the ball is now in their court, and it will be hard to take them seriously if they don't respond with their own alternative path to debt reduction and long-term solvency.


And before they reject everything in Ryan's plan, liberals might want to consider whether some of what he proposes doesn't in fact serve their own ultimate goals. Ryan's proposal to turn Medicare into a voucher provides an easy political target. But it's hard to make a principled liberal case for the program in its current form. To do so, you have to argue that government-paid health care should be a right only for people over the age of 65, and for no one else. Medicare covers doctor and hospital bills at 100 percent, regardless of income. This gives doctors and patients an incentive to maximize their use of the system and waste public resources. Choosing to pay 100 percent of Warren Buffett's medical bills while cutting Head Start reflects a strange set of social priorities, to say the least.

Ryan's alternative to Medicare hardly seems as terrible as Paul Krugman makes out. Seniors would enter the health care world the rest of us live in, with co-payments, deductibles and managed care. Eventually, cost control would require some tough decisions about end-of-life care and the rationing of high-tech treatments that have limited efficacy. But starting with a value of $15,000 per year, per senior—the amount government now spends on Medicare—Ryan's vouchers should provide excellent coverage. His change would amount to a minor amendment to the social contract, not a fundamental revision of it.
[/quote]

Krugman's mentioned...

He has his qualms about Ryan's proposal regarding "sleight-of-hand tricks" uses, but he's at least admitting that Ryan's "intelectually serious" plan puts the ball in the democrats court.

Has anyone seen the "serious" future forecasts from the Senate or Obama?

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This will never fly because rationing health care is socialist and we just can't take that chance now, can we?

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[quote]I think the biggest impediment to doing what has to be done is public opinion. If you poll the American people, they say they want to get the debt under control, they want to reduce the deficit. Then you start asking specific question about what might be done. They first of all say "well, don't touch entitlements." That's 60% of federal spending. Next they say "don't touch defense." That's another 20% Then they say "don't touch the revenue side of the equation at all." Even if it's tax reform that lowers rates, they say "don't do that." The only thing that enjoys majority support among the American people in terms of spending cuts is to cut foreign aid. Foreign aid is less than 1% of the federal budget.[/quote]

Hrmm

Also: This came true too right?

[IMG]http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/mlm/samuelson.png[/IMG]

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[quote]For the last three decades, nearly all the gains of economic growth have gone to the tiny sliver of people at the top of the income scale. The challenge for policymakers is how to restore opportunity for middle- and lower-income Americans by once again widening the path of prosperity. Unfortunately, Chairman Ryan’s plan would narrow it further.

For the wealthy, Ryan’s proposals are pure gold:

A typical hedge fund manager would benefit from Ryan’s extension of the Bush tax cuts for high-income people; the average person making at least $1 million a year would get $125,000 a year in tax breaks.

Heirs to multi-million-dollar estates would benefit from Ryan’s estate tax proposal, which would let them inherit the first $10 million in estate value entirely tax-free.
High-income investors would benefit from Ryan’s elimination of Medicare taxes on their investment income.

And large numbers of high earners would benefit from Ryan’s call to cut the top rate to 25 percent, the lowest in 80 years.

But for working families, whose living standards have stagnated in recent decades, Ryan’s plan seems designed to make it harder for them to help their children have a better life.

... The Ryan plan would:

slash Pell Grants, which help low- and moderate-income kids pay for college (Ryan says the program has been growing “recklessly”);

slash federal aid to states, which would probably have to respond by imposing large tuition hikes for community colleges and public universities;

and kill recent improvements in the American Opportunity Tax Credit that have made it available to the people who need it most — those from lower-income families.
“Restoring America’s Promise” is the subtitle of Ryan’s plan, but denying economic opportunity to young people striving to prosper is a strange way to go about that.[/quote]

[IMG]http://economistsview.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b33869e2014e874ab576970d-800wi[/IMG]

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You realize how much entitlement spending alone is going to be a % of our budget if it's not turned around?

You're not in favor of welfare reform?

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Reform and hacking to death are two separate things...

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[quote name='SgtJ00']Reform and hacking to death are two separate things...[/QUOTE]

I think that every item Ryan has laid out, he's offered offsetting items.

For instance...for the corporate tax rate to be lowered...he's talked about removing all corporate welfare payouts and tax incentives. Make GE pay a flat tax. Enough with legislative pandering and "kickbacks through legislation".

For Medicare, sure..."privatize" in the sense of what we have with the prescription drug plan we have now. Put the choice in the people's hands while a safety net is there (increased subsidies) for the truly needy.


Quit being melodramatic and make offers. Liberals are showing zero leadership...they're fine with the status quo. Are you?

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thats bullshit they've already offered cuts and you know it.

This isn't melodrama, it's peoples lives. People that have worked all their lives for people that have made their fortunes off of their backs, and now it's a great idea to take away the one remaining thing they have to look forward to in old age now that pensions and corporate paid health care have gone the way of the dinosaur while the rich get 200,000 dollar fountains that pee.

Your simplistic GE argument has been thouroughly debunked btw. I agree that corporate tax loopholes can be closed - but of course a year ago, Tea Partiers argued that these were needed to keep companies from leaving the US.

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[quote name='cookinwithgas']thats bullpoo they've already offered cuts and you know it.

This isn't melodrama, it's peoples lives. People that have worked all their lives for people that have made their fortunes off of their backs, and now it's a great idea to take away the one remaining thing they have to look forward to in old age now that pensions and corporate paid health care have gone the way of the dinosaur while the rich get 200,000 dollar fountains that pee.

Your simplistic GE argument has been thouroughly debunked btw. I agree that corporate tax loopholes can be closed - but of course a year ago, Tea Partiers argued that these were needed to keep companies from leaving the US.[/QUOTE]

You lower overall corporate tax rates to "keep companies from leaving the country".

After the bank bailouts and the amounts going to even overseas banks/entities...you would rather keep keep that system of political payback rather than an overall flat tax?

As for the medicare changes, I don't remember those being guarantees to anyone. Social security sure...and I know the retirement age increase is looked upon as bad, but even the debt commission recognized that HAS to be done.

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lol lower corporate tax rate? How do you get lower than 0?

Oh I know, subsidize them. We already do that.

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[quote name='rodeo']lol lower corporate tax rate? How do you get lower than 0?

Oh I know, subsidize them. We already do that.[/QUOTE]

Did you miss the remove subsidies, tax breaks, and bailout monies?

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[quote name='rodeo']lol lower corporate tax rate? How do you get lower than 0?

Oh I know, subsidize them. We already do that.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, green incentives.

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WashPo calls out Pelosi's lies/bull

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/nancy-pelosis-absurd-math-on-senior-citizens-losing-their-meals/2011/04/06/AFUf51rC_blog.html?hpid=z1[/url]

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[quote name='rodeo']lol lower corporate tax rate? How do you get lower than 0?

Oh I know, subsidize them. We already do that.[/QUOTE]

corp tax rate and taxes PAID are MUCH dif. this seems to be a liberal's mantra when this topic comes up.

So right now, you are going on record as saying there is NO corp tax rate and that it's ZERO?

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[quote name='cookinwithgas']
This isn't melodrama, it's peoples lives.[/QUOTE]

Melodrama.

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[quote name='stirs']Paul Ryan = courage
Obama = cowardice

I wish Ryan had gone even further with cuts in Military and telling folks at 50 and under, that their retirement age would be 70.

But what a contrast in someone who is willing to take a bullet which are already being fired at him, to someone whose constantly hiding from issues and has zero leadership capabilities.

Whether you agree with Ryan or not, he is the only one acting like an adult.
We have big issues and everyone says "someone needs to step up". Ryan has and the typical, cowardly, panty waste liberal will only stand back and fire at him just trying to score political points[/QUOTE]
Haven't heard about him wanting to cut defense contractor spending,tax loopholes to corporations sending jobs overseas,oil subsidies,big farm subsidies,prison spending,bringing troops back from Iraq,the war on drugs...etc!It would take courage to finally say it's time to legalize marijuana,prostitution and hemp and tax it!He is also wanting to cut the tax rate of folks making a million and up from 35% to 25%!Doesn't sound like he's that concerned about the deficit!Sounds more like doing the bidding of the Koch brothers!

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[quote name='rodeo']Holy poo I've never seen the media more in unison on a talking point than this "courageous" thing. It's like they passed out a script to every single conservative pundit.[/QUOTE]
Yes,it was a love fest,Beck even told Ryan that he loved him and Ryan returned his affection!

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I would like to add that none of the politicians have the "courage" to propose a good 20 % pay cut and elimination of health care for members of Congress and Senate!

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I blame the GOP for moving the goalposts everytime Reid,Obama and Boehner get close to a deal!I blame the Democrats for not standing up to the GOP and demand that there be cuts to defense contractors,eliminate foreign bases and bring troops back home,cuts to oil and big farm subsidies,close tax loopholes of the GOP beloved corporations that ship jobs overseas,cuts to prisons,the war on drugs,cuts to the salary of politicians,....etc!

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[url]http://twitter.com/RepWeiner/status/56003938901688320#[/url]

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