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Troy Davis ....

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Did not see this posted anywhere so sorry if it is already ....

anyone following this case? Unless his fourth stay is granted, he gets the drugs at 7:00 tonight.

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Did he kill the police officer?
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they say he did, but some jurors and witnesses are recanting their testimony.

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Just posted this thread in the Lounge. Hopefully a mod will merge.

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Desmond Tutu and others have never supported the death penalty...so why now. Mentioning their names has no bearing on the dude's guilt or innocence.

Should Troy Davis be released to society?

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Everyone from Joe B. Public and Jimmy Carter to Pope Benedict XVI are pleading to the state for clemency.

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If so many are recanting testimony, then they should take another look at it.

Eyewitness testimony is not that reliable to begin with.

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Did Troy Davis shoot the kid earlier in the evening?

Pretty sure evidence shows he did...and the dude they're trying to blame for killing MacPhail wasn't with them at the time of the first shooting. Putting the gun in Davis' possession.

Either way....in the old days...all parties that assaulted officer MacPhail that led to his death by the shooting would be under the same penalty if he or she pulled the trigger or not.

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Should a supposedly advanced society still put people to death?

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all you need to know:
[url]http://savannahnow.com/troydavis[/url]

synopsis: August 19, 1989. Davis gets into an argument with a homeless guy over beer. They fight. Off duty cop who is working as a security guard at the bus station, the one who ends up dying, runs over to break it up and gets shot four times, allegedly by Davis, before he can draw his gun.

Another shady character implicates Davis to the cops. Eyewitnesses say Davis shot him, some say he had a smile on his face when he did it. Some of those eyewitnesses recant all or parts of their testimony later.

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[quote name='g5jamz']Did Troy Davis shoot the kid earlier in the evening?

Pretty sure evidence shows he did...and the dude they're trying to blame for killing MacPhail wasn't with them at the time of the first shooting. Putting the gun in Davis' possession.

Either way....in the old days...all parties that assaulted officer MacPhail that led to his death by the shooting would be under the same penalty if he or she pulled the trigger or not.[/QUOTE]

Even the guy who got shot earlier that day says it wasn't Davis who shot him.

Too much doubt in this case. I don't support the death penalty at all, but there is too much doubt in this case for anyone to agree with it, imo.
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If someone recants testimony...why should they be trusted the second time.

Are they willing to be charged with perjury?

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[quote name='g5jamz']If someone recants testimony...why should they be trusted the second time.

Are they willing to be charged with perjury?[/QUOTE]

they shouldn't be trusted at all, i believe that's the point.

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That's why you run with their "under oath" testimony.

That's why people should tell the truth under oath. Lots of reasons people recant testimony. Societal/neighborhood pressure. Money. Clearing their name in part of it. You can't just go back unless there is solid evidence proving his innocence. Liars don't count and there was other evidence that judges felt override the liars' testimony.

If I were a judge, I'd start leveling perjury charges on everyone that's recanting. But I'm not a judge. :)

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[quote name='g5jamz']That's why you run with their "under oath" testimony.

That's why people should tell the truth under oath. Lots of reasons people recant testimony. Societal/neighborhood pressure. Money. Clearing their name in part of it. You can't just go back unless there is solid evidence proving his innocence. Liars don't count and there was other evidence that judges felt override the liars' testimony.

If I were a judge, I'd start leveling perjury charges on everyone that's recanting. But I'm not a judge. :)[/QUOTE]


what a strange point of view.

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[quote name='g5jamz']That's why you run with their "under oath" testimony.

That's why people should tell the truth under oath. Lots of reasons people recant testimony. Societal/neighborhood pressure. Money. Clearing their name in part of it. You can't just go back unless there is solid evidence proving his innocence. Liars don't count and there was other evidence that judges felt override the liars' testimony.

If I were a judge, I'd start leveling perjury charges on everyone that's recanting. But I'm not a judge. :)[/QUOTE]

All those reasons you list are also reasons people give false testimony. Yes, they should tell the truth but sometimes they don't. You don't go back from an execution either.

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Tell the truth and you have nothing to fear. Our judicial system is based on it. Toy with it and we get crap like this.

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[quote name='g5jamz']Tell the truth and you have nothing to fear. Our judicial system is based on it. Toy with it and we get crap like this.[/QUOTE]

sometimes people are mistaken. quite often actually. memory is a really funny thing.

"truth" is a really easy word to throw around but it really isn't that simple.

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[quote name='catfang']All those reasons you list are also reasons people give false testimony. Yes, they should tell the truth but sometimes they don't. You don't go back from an execution either.[/QUOTE]

If he did not do this...why is he in jail.

Based on all the recants, new testimony, etc...should he be released?

I'm not FOR the death penalty. I don't mind some jerk being in jail till they rot. I prefer psychological punishment for the rest of their lives.

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You have to keep in mind that the victim in question was a police officer. My views on how police officers handle their business is no mystery.
When you kill a cop, the cops investigating most likely are emotionally attached to the case. They want vengeance, and they don't care who is the target. Its like when cops choose a victim in a mob and beat the snot out of him in an attempt to intimidate everyone else into leaving. They don't care.
That being said, police intimidation in cases like this runs rampant. When you're dealing with a bunch of shady characters, its not difficult at all for investigators to coerce them into saying what is needed.

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[quote name='Panthro']Should a supposedly advanced society still put people to death?[/QUOTE]

Only if the methods of finding guilt are 100% accurate.

Which of course they are not.

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[quote name='googoodan']You have to keep in mind that the victim in question was a police officer. My views on how police officers handle their business is no mystery.
When you kill a cop, the cops investigating most likely are emotionally attached to the case. They want vengeance, and they don't care who is the target. Its like when cops choose a victim in a mob and beat the snot out of him in an attempt to intimidate everyone else into leaving. They don't care.
That being said, police intimidation in cases like this runs rampant. When you're dealing with a bunch of shady characters, its not difficult at all for investigators to coerce them into saying what is needed.[/QUOTE]

This

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Is/was there proof of police intimidation?

If not...let's not just make it up to help prove a point.

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I also am against the death penalty, for the reasons Happy Panther mentioned. Unless the guilty party fesses up, absolute assurance of guilt is extremely rare.

Btw, I had some personal involvement in a death penalty case a few years ago. A friend of the family's two year old daughter was beaten to death by her husband. He claimed she fell, but they actually found the imprint of the ring he was wearing on her abdomen. It was a truly horrible thing.

He eventually was put to death, but putting him to death didn't solve anything or help anyone. The mother still feels a tremendous amount of guilt that will likely never go away, and the family of the man is full of anguish and pain. The cost of the death penalty conviction was higher than keeping him in prison for life would have been. And given that things like this happen in a fit of uncontrollable rage, its highly unlikely that his death will prevent other similar incidents from happening. So I don't really see the point of a death penalty.

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[quote name='g5jamz']Is/was there proof of police intimidation?

If not...let's not just make it up to help prove a point.[/QUOTE]

[quote]Since his conviction, seven of the nine non-police witnesses have recanted their testimony, alleging police coercion and intimidation in obtaining the testimony.[/quote]
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/14/troy-davis-death-penalty-lynching[/url]

Same standard of proof as the conviction... witnesses said so.

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