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Appears that B.Bell may be watching from bench if things don't improve


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#46 rayzor

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:24 PM

Since when were starting lineups determined in mini camps? Good grief....

hey you charlie brown wannabe,

 

cam newton is the starting QB, greg olsen is the starting TE, ryan kalil is the starting center, charles johnson and greg hardy are the starting DEs, star and maybe kk are the starting DTs, keek/TD/blackburn are the starting LBs...is that not accurate? much of the starting lineup is just understood. despite the rhetoric, most starting positions are decided upon already and the decision for most groups is depth....not to see who is the starting group.

 

i'm not saying that the whole roster needs to be decided upon, but some should be, in particular the OL. we need to be in a position that the OL is established and getting reps so they can get chemistry built as a unit in TC with their QB and not have to wait until the season starts to do that. they need a lot more reps together.

 

it's not an unrealistic thing to have the OL set heading into TC if you've actually worked to put a unit together before TC starts. why would you not be able to determine the starting lineup? i would hope that going into next year we aren't having tryouts all off season for starting gigs, esp. for 3/5 of the OL. if we are going to be perennial contenders, we need to have a consistent OL to go with our consistent QB. until that happens, we are going to be held back, we can't keep on having open competition for most of the OL year after year. we can't keep on trying to piece the unit together. that is one big reason why we havent had back to back winning seasons. note...i did say ONE of the reasons...not THE reason or the MAIN reason...just one of several.



#47 CheeseCP

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:28 PM

hey you charlie brown wannabe,

cam newton is the starting QB, greg olsen is the starting TE, ryan kalil is the starting center, charles johnson and greg hardy are the starting DEs, star and maybe kk are the starting DTs, keek/TD/blackburn are the starting LBs...is that not accurate? much of the starting lineup is just understood. despite the rhetoric, most starting positions are decided upon already and the decision for most groups is depth....not to see who is the starting group.

i'm not saying that the whole roster needs to be decided upon, but some should be, in particular the OL. we need to be in a position that the OL is established and getting reps so they can get chemistry built as a unit in TC with their QB and not have to wait until the season starts to do that. they need a lot more reps together.

it's not an unrealistic thing to have the OL set heading into TC if you've actually worked to put a unit together before TC starts. why would you not be able to determine the starting lineup? i would hope that going into next year we aren't having tryouts all off season for starting gigs, esp. for 3/5 of the OL. if we are going to be perennial contenders, we need to have a consistent OL to go with our consistent QB. until that happens, we are going to be held back, we can't keep on having open competition for most of the OL year after year. we can't keep on trying to piece the unit together. that is one big reason why we havent had back to back winning seasons. note...i did say ONE of the reasons...not THE reason or the MAIN reason...just one of several.


I agree that the OL is unique in that they need more time to work as a unit than most positions but there were a lot of positions that needed to be upgraded this offseason. There was no way to do it all. They played the hand that they were dealt between the salary cap, available free agents, and the way the draft fell. I struggle to find any big screwups in the way they approached it.

#48 pantherclaw

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:47 PM

it's not allowed until training camp.

that's what I thought.

Makes judging linemen in OTA's a moot point.

Edited by pantherclaw, 18 June 2014 - 03:15 PM.


#49 Jeremy Igo

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:54 PM

that's what I thought.

Makes judging linemen in OTA's a moot poinr.


Yes and no.

In terms of strength, it's true. You can't really tell how a guy defends a bull rush.

But in terms of foot speed, you absolutely can see how things will go. Bell struggled mightily against the outside speed rushes.

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#50 rayzor

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:16 PM

Yes and no.

In terms of strength, it's true. You can't really tell how a guy defends a bull rush.

But in terms of foot speed, you absolutely can see how things will go. Bell struggled mightily against the outside speed rushes.

Sent from the Carolina Huddle App

 

it's not a foolproof way of gauging one's ability, but i do think it's a fair assertion to make that if you can't do well in shorts, you probably aren't going to do well in pads.

 

bell's strength is probably good for the job, but from the way it seems, his footwork and ability to get off the snap isn't where it needs to be if he's going to be a starting LT. he may be more of a natural fit for LT than RT, but that still doesn't mean he'll be good or even serviceable.



#51 rayzor

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:30 PM

I agree that the OL is unique in that they need more time to work as a unit than most positions but there were a lot of positions that needed to be upgraded this offseason. There was no way to do it all. They played the hand that they were dealt between the salary cap, available free agents, and the way the draft fell. I struggle to find any big screwups in the way they approached it.

 

there were things that they could have done, but they chose not to. they saw other things as being more important than securing the OL and protecting cam. the biggest one was franchising hardy. whether doing that was the best idea or not is debateable.

 

it's more regretable than anything that so much of the OL is up for grabs. that is something that i hope is changed in the future and i think that after this year the interior of the OL is set for the next 5+ years. chandler might be the ideal LT to replace gross and could be that guy for the next 5+ years as well.

 

bell's role as a starter? meh....he needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. it's pretty well known and understood that he has been struggling at RT. he's had enough time to get better and it's quite possible that we've seen as good as it's going to get with him, and it's not good. we need more than "serviceable" which is pretty much what you get with him and that's being nice.

 

contrary to the way it sounds, i've accepted that we didn't do more and i've accepted the reasons that we didn't. i don't like it, but i accept it. what i don't accept is the lack of competition we've brought in. i know there's still a couple months left, but i have a hard time believing that we are set on those two guys being the starters as raw and unproven as they are, esp. at the pro LT level.

 

i need to accept, that, tho. i think that gettleman and rivera are set in their minds that the starting OTs will be bell and chandler and now it's just a matter of who plays which side. if that's the case, i hope that they settle that decision sooner rather than later so that they can spend the rest of the offseason getting reps as a unit because chemistry together might be the only shot that corps has at performing at a solid level, esp. coming out of the gate.

 

my hope is that this is the corps that works well enough together that we don't need to rebuild any part of it next year and that we can go from one season to the next with the continuity on the OL that we need for prolonged success. if this isn't the corps for the future, then hopefully that corps is upgraded in the next offseason so we have that unit that works together for the next 5-10 years. i think we're close to having that, but it's the OTs that will be the deciding factor.



#52 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:32 PM

But in terms of foot speed, you absolutely can see how things will go. Bell struggled mightily against the outside speed rushes.

 

The only shocking thing about this is that so many people seem to be struggling to accept this.  Have they never seen Byron Bell play football before?



#53 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:45 PM

Anyone who has watched Bell play realizes he struggles with speed rushers.  Handling those speed rushers is the quintessential responsibility of the LT.  Bell was a liability in the pass protection while playing RT.  How often did many of us scream about Shula constantly rolling Cam Newton - our right handed QB - out to the left forcing him to often have to throw across his body?  Well, there's a reason for that.  We had to scheme around Bell's ineffectiveness as a pass protector. 



#54 Billy Love

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:12 PM

guy's it's simple. bell struggled at RT last year...until he proves me wrong, i have no faith that his performance will improve at the more difficult LT position. If he gets my baby boy Cammy Cam hurt...I will %&$#!!@!#@!$$&$ his ass!!!!



#55 pantherclaw

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:18 PM

it's not a foolproof way of gauging one's ability, but i do think it's a fair assertion to make that if you can't do well in shorts, you probably aren't going to do well in pads.

bell's strength is probably good for the job, but from the way it seems, his footwork and ability to get off the snap isn't where it needs to be if he's going to be a starting LT. he may be more of a natural fit for LT than RT, but that still doesn't mean he'll be good or even serviceable.

I don't have a whole lot of hope for Bell.

Not saying he is terrible, just don't believe he'll ever be a corner stone of our line.

#56 rayzor

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:38 PM

I don't have a whole lot of hope for Bell.

Not saying he is terrible, just don't believe he'll ever be a corner stone of our line.

 

not saying he is terrible, but he's terrible.

 

j/k. i think he could be a decent backup, mostly because of experience at the position. he shouldn't be a starter.

 

i gave him the benefit of the doubt his rookie year and even defended him because i don't expect rookie linemen, esp. as starters, to play like established vets. i expect lots of false starts, blown assignments, holding calls, and pressures allowed. i expect them to get pushed around and look like they are on roller skates, but i expect that to be something that they learn from as they go into their second and maybe even third season. this was bell's third season and i didn't see nearly enough improvement to warrant keeping the job or at least not looking for an upgrade or competition.

 

now we're talking about him starting again all over again at LT. we know how he is at RT and while it could be better with a natural stud like tailor beside him, tailor is still a rookie and i expect from him what i expect from all rookie OL. what tailor (and all rookies) needs is a solid vet beside him to help them along. tailor won't have that. tailor will have a guy that is still learning. bell will be relying on help from a rookie to keep him from looking as weak as he has the previous three years. if chandler is starting, i don't know that it gets a whole lot better because then we've got two newbs side by side learning their role at the pro level while they face off against some really solid and experienced competition throughout the season.

 

 



#57 pantherclaw

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:02 PM

I didn't feel we had the best tackles in the past.

Groas has been the best OT the Panthers have had.

I do feel with a solid guards, you can get by with less than stellar tackle play.

We certainly haven't had the opportunity to upgrade the position like we'd like.

I do believe in Chandler at LT.

Between Bell and Williams, well be alight on the right side.

#58 CheeseCP

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:15 PM

there were things that they could have done, but they chose not to. they saw other things as being more important than securing the OL and protecting cam. the biggest one was franchising hardy. whether doing that was the best idea or not is debateable.

it's more regretable than anything that so much of the OL is up for grabs. that is something that i hope is changed in the future and i think that after this year the interior of the OL is set for the next 5+ years. chandler might be the ideal LT to replace gross and could be that guy for the next 5+ years as well.

bell's role as a starter? meh....he needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. it's pretty well known and understood that he has been struggling at RT. he's had enough time to get better and it's quite possible that we've seen as good as it's going to get with him, and it's not good. we need more than "serviceable" which is pretty much what you get with him and that's being nice.

contrary to the way it sounds, i've accepted that we didn't do more and i've accepted the reasons that we didn't. i don't like it, but i accept it. what i don't accept is the lack of competition we've brought in. i know there's still a couple months left, but i have a hard time believing that we are set on those two guys being the starters as raw and unproven as they are, esp. at the pro LT level.

i need to accept, that, tho. i think that gettleman and rivera are set in their minds that the starting OTs will be bell and chandler and now it's just a matter of who plays which side. if that's the case, i hope that they settle that decision sooner rather than later so that they can spend the rest of the offseason getting reps as a unit because chemistry together might be the only shot that corps has at performing at a solid level, esp. coming out of the gate.

my hope is that this is the corps that works well enough together that we don't need to rebuild any part of it next year and that we can go from one season to the next with the continuity on the OL that we need for prolonged success. if this isn't the corps for the future, then hopefully that corps is upgraded in the next offseason so we have that unit that works together for the next 5-10 years. i think we're close to having that, but it's the OTs that will be the deciding factor.


I think it's distinctly possible that Gettleman and Rivera think that the OL is the weak spot on the team, too. You wouldn't necessarily spend your limited resources on marginally better players at your weakest position instead of putting them into greater improvement in lesser, but still weak, areas of the team. You also wouldn't come out and say "yeah, we're not really happy with Bell but we couldn't afford any free agents and the draft didn't set up so we could draft his replacement so we're just gonna run with it for this season".

By your own statement you think there's a good chance that 4 out of 5 of the guys taking the bulk of the 1st team snaps will be the starters this year and probably we'll into the future. That sounds like a great step towards consistency for our weakest spot on the team. I also think that all teams have a spot or two, every year, where they have a "serviceable" player starting. You would refer it not potentially be protecting your quarterback's blindside but I don't think you can really get frustrated that there is one in general.

I'm definitely not excited about the prospects of Bell and Chandler being the bookends this year but it's because their unknowns. They could end up doing well but I don't think that the odds are in both of their favors. I just don't think that there was great incompetence that got us here.

#59 2jakefansinva

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:25 PM

Since when were starting lineups determined in mini camps? Good grief....

 

exactly!! their in fu*king shorts people...........take a breath.



#60 KillerKat

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:30 PM

exactly!! their in fu*king shorts people...........take a breath.


Pads aren't going to help Bell's reaction time and footwork. If he sucks now, he'll suck even worse with the pads on.


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