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Make or break year for Shula (I hope)


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#31 Mojo

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:20 PM

Cam is not Tom Brady











































Yet


I didn't mean to imply that but okay.


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#32 fieryprophet

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:25 PM

Lol

What great talent did we have in Rivera's first year compared to Shula?

You severely undermine / undervalue the effect of playcalling on football.


You know why fans always blame their offensive coordinator when things go wrong? Because fans are dumb. They think teams should value scoring at all costs when that can be a recipe for disaster.

In 2011 defenses didn't respect Cam at all as a passer so he started out ripping teams apart with the deep ball. But those days are long gone with Cam working on protecting the ball and the decline of Steve as a deep threat. And Ginn was not a replacement, he was a one trick pony with big catches and big drops. Teams actually respect our QB now and he has had to refine his game to eliminate the mistakes, which made his a bit over cautious at times. But he learned a lot that will help those explosive plays return this year if he gets the time in the pocket.

#33 CPantherKing

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:28 PM

Shula has been poor everywhere he has called the plays. 

 

At some point you gotta stop making excuses and do more with less. 

 

After all, that is the mark of a great playcaller. 

 

Please, stop with the Shula bashing. I personally do not like our offensive system, but it has been successful in all but one area. - the red zone. That is not due to Shula, but rather the lack of proper personnel he had to work with in the red zone. All the successful teams have 4+ red zone threats in the passing game. The Panthers had 2 options in the red zone - Greg Olsen and Brandon LaFell. LaFell sucked in the red zone. Defenses never played the back half of the end zone due to this and stacked up on Cam and Tolbert. Don't believe me? Go check the Panthers - 49ers playoff game if you have any questions.

 

Panthers were top 5 in time of possession, 3rd down conversions, and 4th down conversions. That shows they moved the ball better than most of the NFL.

 

Once you realize this, all of what the Panthers are doing in the off-season shows a big offensive improvement. The Panthers now have 4+ red zone threats in Kelvin Benjamin, Jerricho Cotchery, Greg Olsen, and Ed Dickson. Add the possibility of Marcus Lucas and Brandon Williams. Toss in a passing game guru in John Ramsdell. Now the running game opens up in the red zone and you toss in a healthy Jonathan Stewart with Cam Newton and Mike Tolbert.

 

When it comes to 1st down conversions with the run game in the NFL over the past 3 seasons, Cam Newton is #1 in the NFL all 3 seasons with over a 40% 1st down conversion per running attempt each season. Mike Tolbert was #2 in the NFL in 2013, and in Cam's first season Jonathan Stewart was #2 in the NFL. Of all NFL players, only 8 have come out with a 30%+ first down/rush conversion rate in the past 3 seasons. The Panthers own 5 of those 8 spots.

 

Make the defenses play the back of the end zone, and the Panthers have a nightmare for defenses with the Panthers running game.

 

This may arguably be the best red zone offense in the NFL now.

 

I still don't like the offensive scheme, but it has worked, it has been improved, and it will be a monster to stop.



#34 Jeremy Igo

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:38 PM

So those terrible wide receivers of ours are still on the market right?

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#35 WhoAmI?

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:40 PM

above average offenses struggle against above average defenses. it's not a coordinator problem.

 

But we weren't above average. We were a below average offense. Again, I'm not quitting on Shula yet because he really didn't have a lot to work with. But if we want to contend for and win some superbowls (which is the ultimate goal) we are going to have to be dominant in either passing or rushing. Seattle and San Fran both were ranked 3rd and 4th (respectively) in rushing and their QB wasn't the one with most of their rushing yards. Hopefully Shula can open the playbook up more now that our offense is getting healthier.



#36 rodeo

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:43 PM

My main problem with Shula last year was that he gave up on what was working. During our midseason win streak, he was calling tons of short and mid range passing plays which Cam was nailing because our receivers were able to get open off the line. Then to end the season and into the playoffs, that got abandoned. He went back to slow developing routes which sputtered out and ended drives.

 

Whether that was actually Shula's play calling, or Cam wanting to force the big play, I'm not sure. But it was shades of Fox's "I know we just had record breaking rushing season, but let's have Delhomme pass it 50 times in Arizona" 2008.



#37 panthers55

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:43 PM

Lets see if what happened in San Diego happens here which is that Ramsdell was quickly adopted as a fan favorite with many wanting him to replace their OC.  Didn't happen there and likely won't here.  I am sure Ramsdell could call a game but I don't think he ever has.  Hard to replace a guy who helped us go 12-4 in his first season as OC with someone who has never been an OC.



#38 fieryprophet

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:45 PM

So those terrible wide receivers of ours are still on the market right?

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None of them are more than #3 on their rosters. One's not even healthy. One's about to be moved to TE. One said they were ready to retire this year. The other was wildly overpaid two years after 2 catches.

#39 panthers123

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:49 PM

both seattle and san francisco's offenses were ranked in the bottom half of the league. their elite defenses is what earned them their records.

 

This is a bit deceptive. The elite defense means they don't have to score as much so they will spend more time running down the clock. That doesn't mean their offense is below average. It merely means they don't have to try as hard because they are good in so many different areas. Teams like the colts and saints need to constantly push the offense because they dont have support from their defense. 



#40 CPantherKing

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:53 PM

So those terrible wide receivers of ours are still on the market right?

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Well, one is not going to play WR and instead fill a role as a crazy hybrid player for Tom Brady.

 

Another is injured, yet again.

 

Another is on pace to see little time in an Arizona passing game and find himself going back to his old role of punt returner and deep threat decoy.

 

And another one is going to play a Wes Welker slot role for the Ravens because he is not a #1.

 

So, of the 4 only one was a serious WR, and he has been suited for a slot/#2 role for the past few seasons.

 

And how many were red zone threats? None.

 

I do wish the Panthers kept Smitty and switched him to a slot role like the Ravens are doing. I also understand asking him to step down from his leadership role and taking a less aggressive stance with young players. That last part is what I believe sealed his fate. I don't see Smith stepping back from intimidating the younger receivers and allowing Cam to run the offense. We love Smith, but let us be honest. He was never a team player like Mike Tolbert or a true leader like Luke Kuechly. He made mention in interviews of having to force himself to take that mindset. It never came natural to him, and he did not really want that role. He will be better off in Baltimore.



#41 nosuchthingasapanther

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:54 PM

But we weren't above average. We were a below average offense.


my point was it doesn't matter how good or bad an offense is, it will usually struggles against an elite defense.

Again, I'm not quitting on Shula yet because he really didn't have a lot to work with. But if we want to contend for and win some superbowls (which is the ultimate goal) we are going to have to be dominant in either passing or rushing. Seattle and San Fran both were ranked 3rd and 4th (respectively) in rushing and their QB wasn't the one with most of their rushing yards. Hopefully Shula can open the playbook up more now that our offense is getting healthier.


now this i can agree with.

with all the moaning and groaning about shula, you'd think the panthers went 4-12 last season instead of 12-4. the issue with the offense overall is there's no threat outside of newton. as much as people want to paint him as all world, the offense has to have an identity to compliment him. teams aren't stacking the box and daring him to throw like they did his rookie season. he's the focal point of opposing defenses, and until carolina has a true rushing attack (hello double trouble where are you???) or a dominant wide receiver (kelvin Benjamin...knock on wood) to draw some of the attention off him, the offense is going to remain an ugly one man show.

#42 Frizzy350

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:54 PM

Considering what Chud was doing for 2 years U'd think us fans would be nothing but happy to see his polar opposite calling plays for us (Shula).

 

I had some issues with his playcalling but I see a lot of benefit to what we were doing on offense, especially given the lack of talent on the line and at the wideout position.



#43 Frizzy350

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:55 PM

my point was it doesn't matter how good or bad an offense is, it will usually struggles against an elite defense.


now this i can agree with.

with all the moaning and groaning about shula, you'd think the panthers went 4-12 last season instead of 12-4. the issue with the offense overall is there's no threat outside of newton. as much as people want to paint him as all world, the offense has to have an identity to compliment him. teams aren't stacking the box and daring him to throw like they did his rookie season. he's the focal point of opposing defenses, and until carolina has a true rushing attack (hello double trouble where are you???) or a dominant wide receiver (kelvin Benjamin...knock on wood) to draw some of the attention off him, the offense is going to remain an ugly one man show.

 

Seeing Cam single handedly win games puts a big creepy pedosmile on me.



#44 panthers123

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:58 PM

So those terrible wide receivers of ours are still on the market right?

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Pretty much all the WRs we lost are now a WR3 on their new team. That definitely says something about what Shula had to work with in the passing game. The running game sucked too because the OL wasnt generating the lanes for our RB. He did a pretty good job with what we had. We have some good pieces in Cam, Olsen, Kalil, and Gross but the rest of the offense was pretty poor. The OL did their job in pass protection but sucked in the run game. The pass game was pretty much all on Cam and Olsen



#45 nosuchthingasapanther

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 07:00 PM

This is a bit deceptive. The elite defense means they don't have to score as much so they will spend more time running down the clock. That doesn't mean their offense is below average. It merely means they don't have to try as hard because they are good in so many different areas. Teams like the colts and saints need to constantly push the offense because they dont have support from their defense.


so why does the same concept of it being acceptable to not have to score as much because of having an elite defense not apply to the panthers?

i've watched plenty of seattle games to see that they are (with the exception of have a true rushing attack) are a mirror image of the panthers...even down to wilson bailing out the offense in clutch situations just like newton does for the panthers.

Edited by nosuchthingasapanther, 25 June 2014 - 07:00 PM.



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