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Make or break year for Shula (I hope)


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#91 teeray

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 03:51 PM

So the Jaguars have better offense talent than us? I mean, they scored 27 against SF and Sea in 2 games, compared to our 26 in three games.

Or the Bucs? They scored 38 in 2 games against the other elite defenses.

 

Or could it be that they know how to scheme against a man defense?

 

In the case of the Jaguars it was because the were behind a collective 52-3 at halftime of those games and faced mostly soft zone in the second halves allowing them to accumulate some yardage and points against SF and Seattle's second string



#92 Chimera

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:59 PM

Yep we were good enough for 12-4. No matter we got beat down at home in our good enough stadium with good enough video boards and a good enough speaker system. Why improve?

#93 mbarbour21

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:47 PM

Yep we were good enough for 12-4. No matter we got beat down at home in our good enough stadium with good enough video boards and a good enough speaker system. Why improve?


We are not saying we don't need to improve, we are saying we don't believe improving includes canning Shula. His scheme worked, and it would have worked better if we could score TDs in the redzone. So we brought in some guys that are redzone threats, in order to IMPROVE.

#94 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:18 PM

We went 12-4 last year with Shula....

Despite having a weak OL
Weak WRs
Average RBs

His O isn't sexy....if we actually gave him and Cam an OL.....we wouldn't have much to complain about with his O paired with our D. Shula in 2013 SHOULD get credit for helping us have a top tier D. He doesn't around here however

#95 Chimera

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

We are not saying we don't need to improve, we are saying we don't believe improving includes canning Shula. His scheme worked, and it would have worked better if we could score TDs in the redzone. So we brought in some guys that are redzone threats, in order to IMPROVE.

 

Sorry, I'm not finding where I said we should can Shula.

His scheme worked against lesser talent. Way back right after week one, I said his gameplan for the Seahawks was good. It limited mistakes and gave us what the D gave us. However at some point, you HAVE TO TAKE RISKS. If you're ok with division championships, that's you. Like I said in my first post ITT, winning conference is what I want. You will not win a conference championship in the NFL without taking risks.



#96 Chimera

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

We went 12-4 last year with Shula....

 

 

I don't see how this is a legitimate argument. We went 12-4 with Jeff Davidson. How did that work for us?



#97 panthers123

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:01 PM

Sorry, I'm not finding where I said we should can Shula.

His scheme worked against lesser talent. Way back right after week one, I said his gameplan for the Seahawks was good. It limited mistakes and gave us what the D gave us. However at some point, you HAVE TO TAKE RISKS. If you're ok with division championships, that's you. Like I said in my first post ITT, winning conference is what I want. You will not win a conference championship in the NFL without taking risks.

 

We took a ton of risk in the playoff game against the 49ers. He was smart enough not to use the run game against their defense. We also had 2 goal line runs for tds but failed on both. We took plenty of risk when we needed too. The good thing is our defense is so good there is no need to take many risks against average to lesser teams. We do however need to take risk against teams better than us (49ers and hawks)



#98 CarolinaSamurai

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:41 PM

Why has no one mentioned the fact Cam has played a bigger part than any other year as far as calling plays and reading defenses.

With so many factors it's hard to say Shula is great or sucks yet. One good year does not a great or terrible OC make.

Plus we aren't privy to what's called and who's shoulders some of these plays rest on. Even Cam admitted he made a mistake with the stuffed run he did that should have been points in the 49ers game.

Unfortunately, we will have to just wait and see. I personally think Shula is one dimensional but that's just an opinion and if I'm wrong I'll be more happy than upset.


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#99 CelticCat

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 01:35 AM

We actually didn't even rank that badly in red zone TD's, we were ranked 8th league wide. Yeah, we struggled in the game that mattered most so it may look worse than it actually was.

 

Its amazing that people can't grasp simple concepts like ball control offenses will tend to have fewer yards or points per game than heavy passing teams like the Lions. Would you rather have their win/loss record? The object of the game is to score more points than your opponent. Some teams actually believe limiting the other teams opportunities is a good way to achieve that.

 

Here are some neat stats from Shula's below average O (sarcasm)

 

9th in TD's per drive

13th in FG's per drive

12th in 3 and outs per drive

11th in yards per drive

10th in points per drive

7th in turnovers per drive

3rd in fumbles per drive

3rd in plays per drive

2nd in TOP per drive

5th in drive success rate

 

And all this was achieved having only 162 drives during the year, well below the NFL average of 186. Only San Diego had fewer and they had arguably the Top O in the league.

 

How many 4th quarter comeback wins did Cam have under Chud over 2 years? Cam had 4 last year so lets not pretend like Shula/Cam couldn't get the job done in the passing game when we needed to.


Edited by CelticCat, 28 June 2014 - 01:44 AM.


#100 CPantherKing

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:05 PM

Shula's 2013 offense produced at a higher level than Chud's 2012 offense. With virtually the same personnel.

 

Shula's 2013 passing game produced more touchdowns, less turnovers, and a better first down conversion percentage than Chud's 2011 passing game. Chud's passing game produced more yards though. So, you would prefer more yards and less of the rest?

 

Here is the difference. In 2011, the Panthers running game put up the points and Cam ran for several red zone touch downs. The red zone was open for the run game. The difference was the Panthers had multiple red zone threats in the passing game and forced defenses to spread out and use all of the field. This gave cam and the running backs more lanes and options to get in the end zone.

 

2011 Red zone passing threats: Greg Olsen, Jeremy Shockey, Legedu Naanee, and Brandon LaFell

 

2012 and 2013 red zone passing threats: Greg Olsen and Brandon LaFell.

 

2014 red zone passing threats: Greg Olsen, Kelvin Benjamin, Jerricho Cotchery, Ed Dickson, Marcus Lucas, and Brandon Williams

 

I have made previous posts showing the successful scoring offenses have 4+ red zone passing threats. A teams ability to strengthen the running game by weakening the defenses ability to defend the run in the redzone is the difference. Always has been. Defense, field position via special teams and red zone offense is what wins championships. Rack up all the yards you want anywhere else on the field, but when it comes down to it the team that can play the best in a 20 to 30 yard box will win it every time when the best play the best.



#101 FootballMaestro

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:40 PM

You know why fans always blame their offensive coordinator when things go wrong? Because fans are dumb. They think teams should value scoring at all costs when that can be a recipe for disaster.

In 2011 defenses didn't respect Cam at all as a passer so he started out ripping teams apart with the deep ball. But those days are long gone with Cam working on protecting the ball and the decline of Steve as a deep threat. And Ginn was not a replacement, he was a one trick pony with big catches and big drops. Teams actually respect our QB now and he has had to refine his game to eliminate the mistakes, which made his a bit over cautious at times. But he learned a lot that will help those explosive plays return this year if he gets the time in the pocket.

 

Wow!

 

Impressive analysis (minus the "dumb fan" comment)! Lol



#102 FootballMaestro

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:47 PM

For those talking about Ramsdell having this huge impact on our passing game, I wouldn't hold your breath. I asked Bill Voth about him and he didn't think, based on what he'd seen at OTAs, that Ramsdell would have a very influential role.

 

Unless ths is a joke: Come on SCP. That doesn't mean anything.

 

Unless, Voth is on the team, or receiving daily updates and briefings from Rivera and Shula regarding the offense, how would, what would he know?
 



#103 The Huddler

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:57 PM

Those who blindly blame shula are lost

#104 Gabeking

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 05:50 PM

Those who blindly blame anything* are lost


Fify


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Edited by Gabeking, 28 June 2014 - 05:51 PM.


#105 Ivan The Awesome

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:43 PM

Wasn't this said last year about Shula as well? "Make or break year for Shula.." It's always that way it seems. It think everything will be fine since players have been in this system for a while now and Shula has learned a lot. 




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