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A little perspective on the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict


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#136 mav1234

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:07 AM

Pstall: I have seen people called Nazis (unfairly) for the type of comments Venom and GRP made in this thread, so I took your comment literally at first, too. I am not totally surprised GRP asked the question; he had been a frequent poster in this thread and your post seemed to suggest you thought someone was a Nazi. I didn't think you would think any of the arguments made here constituted support for Nazism so I was just curious, appreciate the clarification tho

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Edited by mav1234, 22 July 2014 - 01:09 AM.


#137 mav1234

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:18 AM

you're giving him a lot of leeway when he literally bolded "hitler didn't kill enough jews" and responded with "i think one prolific poster here will agree.


I am - I read his post the way you did, too, and also wondered who he could have meant. But while I do get annoyed with his stances sometimes, I didn't think he'd actually accuse you of being a Nazi. As someone not as versed in this subject as others I do appreciate your posts on this subject in general and didn't see anything even vaguely anti-Semitic in your posts. Tired of seeing people falsely accused of that (IRL, not here).

Tbh tho I don't usually agree with your posting tactics I do appreciate your general willingness to bring in sources and your ability to intellectually challenge just about every poster here.

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#138 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:24 AM

now that we've established that we're not nazis, maariv reported several days ago that hamas offered a 10 year truce so long as israel accepted the following conditions: 

 

 

Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.

Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.

Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.

Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.

Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.

Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.

International forces on the borders.

Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.

Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

 

how many of these requests seem unreasonable as a starting point (presuming that the goal is to work toward peace)? 

 

 

http://mondoweiss.ne...conditions.html



#139 mav1234

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:29 AM

On a train to Budapest and WiFi is slow so can't really do research, what is the reconciliation agreement refered to as one of the last points?

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Edited by mav1234, 22 July 2014 - 01:30 AM.


#140 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:44 AM

On a train to Budapest and WiFi is slow so can't really do research, what is the reconciliation agreement refered to as one of the last points?

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That government was created largely because of Hamas’s desperation and isolation. The group’s alliance with Syria and Iran was in shambles. Its affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt became a liability after a July 2013 coup replaced an ally, President Mohamed Morsi, with a bitter adversary, Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Hamas’s coffers dried up as General Sisi closed the tunnels that had brought to Gaza the goods and tax revenues on which it depended.

Seeing a region swept by popular protests against leaders who couldn’t provide for their citizens’ basic needs, Hamas opted to give up official control of Gaza rather than risk being overthrown. Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That decision led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization, on terms set almost entirely by the P.L.O. chairman and Palestinian Authoritypresident, Mahmoud Abbas.

Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans’ passage to the outside world.

Yet, in many ways, the reconciliation government could have served Israel’s interests. It offered Hamas’s political adversaries a foothold in Gaza; it was formed without a single Hamas member; it retained the same Ramallah-based prime minister, deputy prime ministers, finance minister and foreign minister; and, most important, it pledged to comply with the three conditions for Western aid long demanded by America and its European allies: nonviolence, adherence to past agreements and recognition of Israel.

Israel strongly opposed American recognition of the new government, however, and sought to isolate it internationally, seeing any small step toward Palestinian unity as a threat. Israel’s security establishment objects to the strengthening of West Bank-Gaza ties, lest Hamas raise its head in the West Bank. And Israelis who oppose a two-state solution understand that a unified Palestinian leadership is a prerequisite for any lasting peace.


Edited by GOOGLE RON PAUL, 22 July 2014 - 01:45 AM.


#141 mav1234

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:28 AM

To an outsider who knows little of all of this, it seems very reasonable

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#142 stirs

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:48 AM

As far as the Nazi thing, I might have gone through life never having heard of Stormfront, if not from some Tbox posters.  The things you learn here.....



#143 Harris Aballah

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:02 AM

that israel is an apartheid state that breeds violent resistance through its settlements and indiscriminate murder of palestinian children

What do you consider it when someone detonates a suicide bomb on a school bus?



#144 Floppin

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:03 AM

What do you consider it when someone detonates a suicide bomb on a school bus?


Pretty sure what you quoted provides your answer.

#145 Harris Aballah

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:09 AM

if Hamas wanted to limit their civilian casualties? Or to develop a treaty of peace? Why didn't they accept the Egyptian cease-fire?



#146 cookinwithgas

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

Why didn't the American Indians just give us all their land instead of subjecting their people to genocide

Why did we bother fighting the Revolutionary War it was just a tax on tea




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#147 pstall

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

Women and children first takes on a whole new meaning with Hamas. Forward thinkers those guys. And yes Israel is not angels either.

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#148 cookinwithgas

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:15 PM

Give them the same money and support Israel gets, give Israel what they have, and what do you think would happen?


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Edited by cookinwithgas, 22 July 2014 - 12:16 PM.


#149 Keep Pounding

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:07 PM

now that we've established that we're not nazis, maariv reported several days ago that hamas offered a 10 year truce so long as israel accepted the following conditions: 

 

 

how many of these requests seem unreasonable as a starting point (presuming that the goal is to work toward peace)? 

 

 

http://mondoweiss.ne...conditions.html

 

 

I wish they would add, retreat back to the 1948 borders.


Edited by Keep Pounding, 22 July 2014 - 01:08 PM.


#150 Keep Pounding

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 01:14 PM

Women and children first takes on a whole new meaning with Hamas. Forward thinkers those guys. And yes Israel is not angels either.

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I would say Israel is far worse.  They have been mass murdering Palestinians since 1948, and the Zionist media likes to cover that up. Or dis credit anybody that proclaims the genocide was far worse then reported.  As for women and children being killed, I bet that the Jews have killed far for Palestinian women and children then Hamas has.  And if you want to act like they are shielding themselves behind the women and children, the Gaza Strip is only 25 miles long and 3-7 miles in length, there is not a lot of hiding spots.  But as the Israelis, aren't all men and women forced  to serve in their terror organization they call their armed forces?  There for any man or woman is free game then right?




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