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Vladimir Putin


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#46 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 02:52 PM

Bingo! Been saying this since the conflict started. I don't think it has a thing to do with trying to undermine the US, or destroy the value of the dollar, or secure the oil fields. It's much simpler; more innate. This is a move to secure the border in the interest of saving Russia from collapsing. It's survival. It's Geopolitics 101. This is a defensive strategy masquerading as an aggressive action. Russia literally cannot survive if NATO, it's sworn enemy, is 400 miles from Moscow. No nation could. The US would be none too pleased if it's border with Iran was 400 miles away from Washington, DC.

 

They need a buffer zone. The rest is just propaganda.

 

The whole scenario has played out almost exactly like George Friedman of Stratfor predicted it would in his 2009 book, "The Next 100 years."
 

 

Naturally, after the Ukraine conflict started, I went back and re-read it. Maybe he can recommend some good stocks to invest in.

 

 

I agree with some of what he said, although I think Russia greatly overestimates the threat from NATO.  Russia could certainly survive if they had NATO countries on their border.  I understand why they fear it, given their history, but its hard it is to get NATO to agree on anything.   I can't see them ever agreeing to attack Russia.  Nor do I think the US really wanted to bring the Ukraine into NATO, although I can understand why it might appear that way to Russia.   Ironically, the Russian attack on Ukraine has made it slightly more likely that the Ukraine would try to join NATO. 

 

Of course, sometimes perception is more important than reality. 


Edited by Davidson Deac II, 02 September 2014 - 02:54 PM.


#47 Captroop

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:01 PM

I agree with some of what he said, although I think Russia greatly overestimates the threat from NATO.  Russia could certainly survive if they had NATO countries on their border.  I understand why they fear it, given their history, but its hard it is to get NATO to agree on anything.   I can't see them ever agreeing to attack Russia.  Nor do I think the US really wanted to bring the Ukraine into NATO, although I can understand why it might appear that way to Russia.   Ironically, the Russian attack on Ukraine has made it slightly more likely that the Ukraine would try to join NATO. 

 

Of course, sometimes perception is more important than reality. 

 

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss US involvement. If you think the US had no part in the overthrow of the Pro-Russian government in Ukraine, and the installation of Pro-Western/Pro-NATO leaders, then you need to brush up on CIA history.

 

Old story from the early days of the protests. Protesters and police were both shot and killed with the same kinds of rounds. Like literally the same bullets. This was from the independent UN investigators who were on the ground there.

 

Think what the US stands to gain from the West controlling Ukraine, and what Russia stands to lose, and this conflict makes perfect sense.



#48 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:16 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss US involvement. If you think the US had no part in the overthrow of the Pro-Russian government in Ukraine, and the installation of Pro-Western/Pro-NATO leaders, then you need to brush up on CIA history.

 

Old story from the early days of the protests. Protesters and police were both shot and killed with the same kinds of rounds. Like literally the same bullets. This was from the independent UN investigators who were on the ground there.

 

Think what the US stands to gain from the West controlling Ukraine, and what Russia stands to lose, and this conflict makes perfect sense.

 

Believe me, I am well aware of CIA history, although I believe there is a tendency for some to overestimate what the CIA can do.  For them to overthrow a government, there has to be a significant amount of people that already want such a thing.  The CIA can help and assist, but control is an illusion.  And the modern day version of the KGB has significantly more influence in that region than we do. 

 

Its not surprising that police and protesters were shot with the same rounds, since both sides were using the same weapons. 

 

The US really doesn't gain much, other than watching Russia founder a bit. 



#49 Captroop

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:26 PM

Believe me, I am well aware of CIA history, although I believe there is a tendency for some to overestimate what the CIA can do.  For them to overthrow a government, there has to be a significant amount of people that already want such a thing.  The CIA can help and assist, but control is an illusion.  And the modern day version of the KGB has significantly more influence in that region than we do. 

 

Its not surprising that police and protesters were shot with the same rounds, since both sides were using the same weapons. 

 

No, not the same type of gun. The same gun.

 

 

On March 5, a phone call between Estonia’s Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton was leaked online.  Regarding the sniper attacks, Paet says:

“What was quite disturbing, this same Olga told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen, and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides.”

 

“She then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened.”

 

“There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition.”

 

“It already discredits from the very beginning this new coalition.”

 

 

The US really doesn't gain much, other than watching Russia founder a bit.

 

In the short term. In the near term they get the oil fields in Crimea (which are rich, and to this point relatively untapped). And in the long term, they get all of Russia's oil fields AND control of the flow of oil to Europe.



#50 ecu88

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:00 PM

Da fug

http://www.zerohedge...id-all-out-ukra

#51 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:57 PM

No, not the same type of gun. The same gun.

 

 

 

In the short term. In the near term they get the oil fields in Crimea (which are rich, and to this point relatively untapped). And in the long term, they get all of Russia's oil fields AND control of the flow of oil to Europe.

 

From the article you linked

 

 

“What was quite disturbing, this same Olga told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen, and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides.”

 

“She then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened.”

 

It says the same type of bullet. Nothing about the same gun. Did I miss something?

 

We are not getting Crimean oil, regardless of how this conflict turns out.  Just like we didn't get Iraqi oil, or resources in Afghanistan.



#52 ARSEN

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:00 PM

From the article you linked

 

 

It says the same type of bullet. Nothing about the same gun. Did I miss something?

 

We are not getting Crimean oil, regardless of how this conflict turns out.  Just like we didn't get Iraqi oil, or resources in Afghanistan.

 

It seems as Russia will lose it's best customers.  Germany is switching to 100% renewable energy.  The only countries Russia will be able to sale gas and oil to are China and India.  I can assure you, Russia won't profit that much from those countries.  



#53 PandaPancake

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:31 PM

From the article you linked


It says the same type of bullet. Nothing about the same gun. Did I miss something?

We are not getting Crimean oil, regardless of how this conflict turns out. Just like we didn't get Iraqi oil, or resources in Afghanistan.


But by meddling in Middle Eastern affairs America has pushed the cost of oil high enough that we developed horizontal drilling which has made us the #2 producer of oil in the world. Soon as I file these papers we'll be #1. Piss off, Saudis and Russia.

#54 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:06 AM

But by meddling in Middle Eastern affairs America has pushed the cost of oil high enough that we developed horizontal drilling which has made us the #2 producer of oil in the world. Soon as I file these papers we'll be #1. Piss off, Saudis and Russia.

 

Perhaps you are being facetious, but I doubt US involvement in the Middle East has had much of an impact on the price of oil.  Its the ever increasing demand that has had the biggest impact. 



#55 jasonluckydog

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 07:53 AM


This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend Estonia

https://www.yahoo.com/?m=sp


Russia is ready they don't give a poo

#56 TheMaulClaw

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 01:15 AM

I really don't understand why we're trying to hall monitor Russia.  We should really be trying to forge an alliance with them.  If eastern Ukraine wants to be Russian let them.  Just not sure why we're trying to make this guy an enemy.

 



#57 Mvp2014

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 03:13 AM

I heard they had Christian Bale doing American Psycho, but then asked Leonardo DiCaprio to play the role. After the success of Titanic he refused. They asked someone else and he refused too, so they went back to Christian Bale.

There's some history for your asses.


Nice. Leo would have been decent on that


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