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Fixing the running game a.k.a same story,different year


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#31 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:03 PM

So if no one is getting cut that is better then what we have..do they use a dink and dunk offense to compensate for the lack of a consistent run game or to compliment our lack of? You have to be able to move the chains on 3rd and 3 or 4 regardless how you do it.


No. Our RBs couldn't run worth a poot last year.....we still lined up and ran our Power run ball control O.

Cam isn't a dink and dunk QB. Not his game.

#32 panthers123

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:06 PM

All the teams are going to keep their best 5 or 6 tackles and cast off the rest. The castoffs will not unseat any of the starters but we could definitely get some solid depth. 



#33 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

All the teams are going to keep their best 5 or 6 tackles and cast off the rest. The castoffs will not unseat any of the starters but we could definitely get some solid depth.


not always, old expensive vets are often parted ways with despite being top options for the upcoming year.....if the young future looks ready.

#34 rayzor

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

not always, old expensive vets are often parted ways with despite being top options for the upcoming year.....if the young future looks ready.

yep. the problem is that quitenoften they won't settle for what most teams would be willing or able to pay for an aged lineman and wind up either sitting out for a long time or just retiring.

#35 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

yep. the problem is that quitenoften they won't settle for what most teams would be willing or able to pay for an aged lineman and wind up either sitting out for a long time or just retiring.


Yeah, if you want to rent one you gotta pull out the checkbook and give them a reason

#36 rayzor

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

Yeah, if you want to rent one you gotta pull out the checkbook and give them a reason

the amount that we are spending on DEs this year as well as. few other over/high priced players will prevent that from happening here.

#37 CPantherKing

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:05 PM

This.

 

This right here will be huge.  2+ years ago defenses stacked the box.  Cam didn't make good reads on which LB's were blitzing and which weren't.  It has gotten light years better despite the OL getting worse.

 

The OL needs to gel and the Panthers need to run the ball more often in 2014 then in years past.  This will be the only way they will succeed pass blocking.  There is a great article around somewhere that talks about OL.  The OL always get beat pass blocking and only have an advantage run blocking.  That is when they can wear down the defense - no tall task today with the high rotations used on the front 3 or 4.  I would like to see the stat, how many 3rd downs were converted by run and how many by pass in 2013 by the Panthers.  I'd like to see if it is any different then most NFL teams.

 

Maybe it is just the OC, though...

 

The big thing now is that Cam is capable of making the reads and playing exceptionally well.  If he has time to take 3 to 4 step drops 30 times a game it is going to make a difference on the W-L column.  But, expecting him to complete a pass to save a series on 3rd and 2 is just ridiculous.  The OL needs to step up and the RB's need to find lanes.

 

 

It is clear that the running game is of no serious issue. Cam, Tolbert, and Stewart are the majority of the conversions on the ground. In fact, the 3 of them rank among the top 3 in the league over the past 3 seasons when it comes to rushing 1st downs. I attribute the decline in production from 2011 to the injuries along the OL that kept an entire unit from staying together for a series of weeks, and the injuries to Stewart the past 2 seasons. On the NFL level pass blocking is about the individual talent along the OL, run blocking is about the longevity of an OL unit.

 

The Panthers glaring need is to balance their threat of the pass with their run when converting 1st downs. This especially rings true in the Panthers red zone production. Coaches fall into the hole of balancing all of their play calls. They fail to realize they should focus attention on balancing successful/productive play calls only.


Edited by CPantherKing, 10 August 2014 - 04:07 PM.


#38 Cpt slay a ho

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 05:14 PM

I've seen the draft, now waiting on the cuts.....but like I said during fa were doing very little to fix previous problems from last year but it is the first game I'll give us the benefit of the doubt


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Edited by Cpt slay a ho, 10 August 2014 - 05:15 PM.


#39 BuffaloBills62

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 06:57 PM

 

 

It is clear that the running game is of no serious issue. Cam, Tolbert, and Stewart are the majority of the conversions on the ground. In fact, the 3 of them rank among the top 3 in the league over the past 3 seasons when it comes to rushing 1st downs. I attribute the decline in production from 2011 to the injuries along the OL that kept an entire unit from staying together for a series of weeks, and the injuries to Stewart the past 2 seasons. On the NFL level pass blocking is about the individual talent along the OL, run blocking is about the longevity of an OL unit.

 

The Panthers glaring need is to balance their threat of the pass with their run when converting 1st downs. This especially rings true in the Panthers red zone production. Coaches fall into the hole of balancing all of their play calls. They fail to realize they should focus attention on balancing successful/productive play calls only.

 

 

Let me present this critical view of the running game like this:

 

When it is 3rd and 2 and you have no choice but to run it, when it is anything - 3rd and 1, 3rd and a half... anything.  When everyone on the field, in the stadium and the world know the Carolina Panthers are going to run it how much faith do you have that the team will be able to convert that play to a first down where it matters?

 

Take Cam Newton out of your thoughts and just put it on the RB's and team - no Newton carrying the ball.  Can the RB's carry it?  Can they truly carry it?  Can they carry the load, haul the rock, and bring home the baby when the pressure is on the line?

 

I have a hard time believing that even with a top 5 OL unit that the Panthers RB's could get this done.  Maybe I am a bit spoiled from what I am accustomed to over the last 15-20 years from the Bills - but I just do not sit comfortable with the stall of RB's in Carolina.  I really hope this can change, I really hope durability and reliability improve, and I hope that it is a result of the RB's finding their own success without having bailouts from Cam and the passing game, as well.



#40 Cpt slay a ho

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:00 PM

Let me present this critical view of the running game like this:

 

When it is 3rd and 2 and you have no choice but to run it, when it is anything - 3rd and 1, 3rd and a half... anything.  When everyone on the field, in the stadium and the world know the Carolina Panthers are going to run it how much faith do you have that the team will be able to convert that play to a first down where it matters?

 

Take Cam Newton out of your thoughts and just put it on the RB's and team - no Newton carrying the ball.  Can the RB's carry it?  Can they truly carry it?  Can they carry the load, haul the rock, and bring home the baby when the pressure is on the line?

 

I have a hard time believing that even with a top 5 OL unit that the Panthers RB's could get this done.  Maybe I am a bit spoiled from what I am accustomed to over the last 15-20 years from the Bills - but I just do not sit comfortable with the stall of RB's in Carolina.  I really hope this can change, I really hope durability and reliability improve, and I hope that it is a result of the RB's finding their own success without having bailouts from Cam and the passing game, as well.

 

wtf, with toblert hell yeah we could.......



#41 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:02 PM

Let me present this critical view of the running game like this:

When it is 3rd and 2 and you have no choice but to run it, when it is anything - 3rd and 1, 3rd and a half... anything. When everyone on the field, in the stadium and the world know the Carolina Panthers are going to run it how much faith do you have that the team will be able to convert that play to a first down where it matters?

Take Cam Newton out of your thoughts and just put it on the RB's and team - no Newton carrying the ball. Can the RB's carry it? Can they truly carry it? Can they carry the load, haul the rock, and bring home the baby when the pressure is on the line?

I have a hard time believing that even with a top 5 OL unit that the Panthers RB's could get this done. Maybe I am a bit spoiled from what I am accustomed to over the last 15-20 years from the Bills - but I just do not sit comfortable with the stall of RB's in Carolina. I really hope this can change, I really hope durability and reliability improve, and I hope that it is a result of the RB's finding their own success without having bailouts from Cam and the passing game, as well.


You have a hard time believing IF we had a magical top 5 OL we could get it done? Top 5 OL and we could just give it our FB Mike Tolbert for 2. We did that often las year with a garbage OL

#42 bleys

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:47 PM

So if no one is getting cut that is better then what we have..do they use a dink and dunk offense to compensate for the lack of a consistent run game or to compliment our lack of? You have to be able to move the chains on 3rd and 3 or 4 regardless how you do it.

 

I'm more curious how Shula isn't going to find ways to spread the defense out with 4-5 targets over 6'2. 

 

Dickson and Olsen are big enough and quick enough to give most LB/Safeties a run for their money.  Tighten that up and you leave the outside 1 on 1.  Cotchery can get open 1 on 1, I believe that.  KB, even less discussion needed, IMO.. 

 

Then get the RBs involved in space, or open things up with screens, draws, and Cam can scramble when the defense doesn't account for him.

 

Doing much of this out of the 2 TE set and assuming the playcaller can help put the guys in the right position should help the running game tremendously and still control the clock.


Edited by bleys, 10 August 2014 - 08:23 PM.


#43 Navy_football

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:09 PM

Honestly not sure how we can critique any aspect of the offense yet. No Cam and what the 3rd string running back? I think they were pretty entertaining and competitive all things considered.

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#44 CPantherKing

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:11 PM

Let me present this critical view of the running game like this:

 

When it is 3rd and 2 and you have no choice but to run it, when it is anything - 3rd and 1, 3rd and a half... anything.  When everyone on the field, in the stadium and the world know the Carolina Panthers are going to run it how much faith do you have that the team will be able to convert that play to a first down where it matters?

 

Take Cam Newton out of your thoughts and just put it on the RB's and team - no Newton carrying the ball.  Can the RB's carry it?  Can they truly carry it?  Can they carry the load, haul the rock, and bring home the baby when the pressure is on the line?

 

I have a hard time believing that even with a top 5 OL unit that the Panthers RB's could get this done.  Maybe I am a bit spoiled from what I am accustomed to over the last 15-20 years from the Bills - but I just do not sit comfortable with the stall of RB's in Carolina.  I really hope this can change, I really hope durability and reliability improve, and I hope that it is a result of the RB's finding their own success without having bailouts from Cam and the passing game, as well.

 

http://www.sportingc...ercentage/2013/

 

Cam Newton has been #1 on 1st down percentage in the league the past 3 seasons.

 

Jonathan Stewart was #2 in 2011 and Mike Tolbert was #2 in 2013

 

Mike Tobert was over 44.4% in 2012, but he only had 54 carries.

 

5 of the top 6 for rushing first down percentage in the past 3 seasons of all rushers in 3 seasons.

 

I have no doubt the Panthers have what they need to get first downs and move the ball into the red zone while eating up the clock.

 

The Panthers issue has been red zone offense in 2012 and 2013. They lacked the receiving threats to open up the running lanes by threatening the back of the endzone. They loaded up on that this off-season. So, I see the Panthers coming up big in the red zone now.

 

The Panthers now have Benjamin, Olsen, Cotchery, Dickson, Williams, and Avant in the passing game on 3rd and short. They had Olsen and LaFell the past 2 seasons, and we know how many times LaFell dropped passes or better yet popped them up for the DBs to intercept it.


Edited by CPantherKing, 10 August 2014 - 10:13 PM.


#45 RelaxImaPro

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:30 PM

That 1st down % is probably the most underrated part of Cam's game, and one that is rarely ever included in what he brings to the table as a QB since it isn't really a traditional stat.  It keeps drives alive that probably shouldn't have been kept alive.

 

Damn Cam has been shitting on the rest of the league in that category the past 3 years.


Edited by RelaxImaPro, 10 August 2014 - 10:31 PM.



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