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Correct Police Tactics For Dangerous Suspect


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#1 KaseKlosed

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 11:34 AM

This is why people can be so upset with certain law enforcement officers, when they see the inconsistencies in certain situations. 

 

 



#2 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:28 PM

It seems to me police departments need to be held accountable for the tactics employed when dealing with citizens.

Had the police in the Missouri incident used the same approach as in this San Diego example there would have been no justification for shooting/killing the man wielding the knife.

The Missouri PD tactics increased the likelihood of a lethal outcome by initially confronting the suspect within feet of his location. The police needlessly placed themselves and the suspect in a dangerous situation. One that required an immediate lethal response.

On the other hand, note how the San Diego police maintained their distance, which significantly reduced the threat of injury and the need to immediately resort to lethal force. When they ultimately shot the suspect, it was a measured response, not a lethal overreaction.

Edited by NanuqoftheNorth, 28 August 2014 - 12:33 PM.


#3 pstall

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

I know some states do things differently when they pull a car over on the interstate. Best practices should be the same for all states in most circumstances. Makes sense.

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#4 Cat

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:39 PM

It seems to me police departments need to be held accountable for the tactics employed when dealing with citizens.

Had the police in the Missouri incident used the same approach as in this San Diego example there would have been no justification for shooting/killing the man wielding the knife.

The Missouri PD tactics increased the likelihood of a lethal outcome by initially confronting the suspect within feet of his location. The police needlessly placed themselves and the suspect in a dangerous situation. One that required an immediate lethal response.

On the other hand, note how the San Diego police maintained their distance, which significantly reduced the threat of injury and the need to immediately resort to lethal force. When they ultimately shot the suspect, it was a measured response, not a lethal overreaction.

 

 

One shot, instead of 5-7 including two while the guy is laying on the ground and his body is rolling. 



#5 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

This should be Police Tactics Class 101.

The approach used by the Missouri police officers to confront the knife wielding man escalated the situation and made them look like a couple of Barney Fifes/bumbling amateurs.

#6 TheRed

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 12:56 PM

It seems to me police departments need to be held accountable for the tactics employed when dealing with citizens.

Had the police in the Missouri incident used the same approach as in this San Diego example there would have been no justification for shooting/killing the man wielding the knife.

The Missouri PD tactics increased the likelihood of a lethal outcome by initially confronting the suspect within feet of his location. The police needlessly placed themselves and the suspect in a dangerous situation. One that required an immediate lethal response.

On the other hand, note how the San Diego police maintained their distance, which significantly reduced the threat of injury and the need to immediately resort to lethal force. When they ultimately shot the suspect, it was a measured response, not a lethal overreaction.

 

This seems to be the common problem with our police forces across the country. Clearly the training is either insufficient, or some changes need to be made. It also doesn't help that so many of our citizens don't even question it, but seem more than willing to just accept it.

 

There were two posters in another thread arguing that they could "understand" why the trained CMPD officer who shot a disoriented unarmed man ten times would immediately panic with absolutely no alternative but lethal force because an unarmed man was approaching him.

 

It's just sad really.


Edited by TheRed, 28 August 2014 - 12:57 PM.


#7 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:58 PM

I don't know if its really a common problem.  99.9999% of all events involving police don't end up with someone being shot.  Even the vast majority of calls that involve an armed suspect don't end up with someone getting shot.     Given that the US has one of the most heavily armed group of citizens on earth, and one of the most drunk or stoned group of citizens, its probably a surprise that there aren't more cops shootings and more cops being shot. 

 

Its a tragedy any time someone gets killed, but if cops as a group were truly as bad as most here seem to think, it would happen a lot more.  I had a friend who was a cop before the stress got to him and he transferred to animal control.  He said that in 5 years of being a cop, he only had to pull his gun out twice, and both times that was all it took.  The suspect gave up.  According to him, most cops have similar stories.  Events such as this are exceedingly rare and thank god that they are



#8 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:31 PM

I don't know if its really a common problem. 99.9999% of all events involving police don't end up with someone being shot. Even the vast majority of calls that involve an armed suspect don't end up with someone getting shot. Given that the US has one of the most heavily armed group of citizens on earth, and one of the most drunk or stoned group of citizens, its probably a surprise that there aren't more cops shootings and more cops being shot.

Its a tragedy any time someone gets killed, but if cops as a group were truly as bad as most here seem to think, it would happen a lot more. I had a friend who was a cop before the stress got to him and he transferred to animal control. He said that in 5 years of being a cop, he only had to pull his gun out twice, and both times that was all it took. The suspect gave up. According to him, most cops have similar stories. Events such as this are exceedingly rare and thank god that they are.


So like this thread was to discuss the .00001% of Police shooting suspects.

#9 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:43 PM

So like this thread was to discuss the .00001% of Police shooting suspects.

 

Then that would make police over reaction an uncommon occurrence, instead of a common occurrence as stated above. 
 


Edited by Davidson Deac II, 28 August 2014 - 03:44 PM.


#10 g5jamz

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:47 PM

It seems to me police departments need to be held accountable for the tactics employed when dealing with citizens.

Had the police in the Missouri incident used the same approach as in this San Diego example there would have been no justification for shooting/killing the man wielding the knife.

The Missouri PD tactics increased the likelihood of a lethal outcome by initially confronting the suspect within feet of his location. The police needlessly placed themselves and the suspect in a dangerous situation. One that required an immediate lethal response.

On the other hand, note how the San Diego police maintained their distance, which significantly reduced the threat of injury and the need to immediately resort to lethal force. When they ultimately shot the suspect, it was a measured response, not a lethal overreaction.

 

Common tactic by a lot of people.  I don't accept the premise that police departments are not held accountable.  There is a process.  Some places may follow it...some may not...but I would argue that most certainly do otherwise state police would intervene and in some cases federal authorities.  There is no one tactic that's used...it's a fluid situation. 
 



#11 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 04:03 PM

Cops getting shot is rare so they don't need guns



#12 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 04:21 PM

Common tactic by a lot of people.  I don't accept the premise that police departments are not held accountable.  There is a process.  Some places may follow it...some may not...but I would argue that most certainly do otherwise state police would intervene and in some cases federal authorities.  There is no one tactic that's used...it's a fluid situation.


Of course these situations are fluid.

However, in this instance, the first LEOs on scene failed to ensure sufficient distance from the threat. Their failure demonstrates a deficiency in training or a total lack of common sense.

The resulting death of this civilian is directly attributable to police incompetence.


Edited by NanuqoftheNorth, 28 August 2014 - 05:02 PM.


#13 SmokinwithWilly

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 06:27 PM

From only watching this video, I'd call this a bad shoot. 

 

The reason you shoot someone is to end the threat. That's it. No more, no less. He leveled his weapon and appears he aimed it at someone. A lethal take down would have been the safest thing at that point, at least in my opinion, because it ended the threat.  According to the video, they still couldn't approach him for 30 minutes because he still had the gun. They shot to wound and didn't end the threat. Eventually they were able to take him into custody, but it could have turned out differently. What if he had started firing on the way down because it wasn't a lethal shot? Killed someone because of a random unlucky shot?. Would we still be saying shoot to wound, or would people be screaming because they didn't kill him before he managed to kill an innocent?You shoot to end the threat. 

 

On a more positive note, he will probably sue for millions for pain and suffering for his non lethal wound. And win. 



#14 CarolinaCoolin

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

On a more positive note, he will probably sue for millions for pain and suffering for his non lethal wound. And win.


That's why they don't shoot to wound for all the posters who keep shouting for that.


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#15 Anybodyhome

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 06:19 AM

Perspective:

 

1. Anyone care to guess just how many calls police throughout the country responded to on August 9, 2014?

2. Anyone care to guess how many police initiated interactions were done around the country on August 9, 2014?

 

Yet a town was basically crippled by the press, its own citizens, the National Guard, hundreds of cops, protestors and whomever else because the one time out of literally hundreds of thousands of police interactions that took place in 50 states in this country on August 9, 2014 resulted in someone getting shot. 

 

I'm not siding with right or wrong here, I'm simply trying to keep it in perspective.




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