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#16 jramsey4

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 03:00 PM

Butler won't be leaving unless it's for head coach. There's really not much reason to discuss that move.

No thoughts on McKenzie?


I have been saying for some time I would love Butler as a HC. Mckenzie I know very little about personally. But here is a link to a page that reviewed his career (from when the Chiefs were still looking for a GM).

http://www.arrowhead...know-a-gm-reggi

#17 Mr. Scot

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 03:02 PM

I'm planning to do more research later.

#18 jramsey4

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 03:09 PM

I'm planning to do more research later.


I have looked at quite a few different guys and I just can't find a more successful candidate then Marc Ross. Its like whatever team he touches turns to gold in the draft (I know its only 2, Eagles and Giants). After I did his writeup it seemed like everyone I was researching didn't hold a candle to this guy. That's why I stopped at 3. I know you can probably blow mine out of the water as I look forward to all your write ups.

#19 magnus

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 05:12 PM

I have been saying for some time I would love Butler as a HC. Mckenzie I know very little about personally. But here is a link to a page that reviewed his career (from when the Chiefs were still looking for a GM).

http://www.arrowhead...know-a-gm-reggi

ehh...saying "don't look at a guy because they drafted 5 UT guys in eight years and he's from UT" never made sense given that he's a Pro Personnel guy.

#20 jramsey4

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 08:08 PM

ehh...saying "don't look at a guy because they drafted 5 UT guys in eight years and he's from UT" never made sense given that he's a Pro Personnel guy.


I was thinking the same thing but the article did say he had his hand in the drafting decisions from time to time.

#21 Dpantherman

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 09:39 PM

if cowher is hired he may be gm/head coach not sure if he would still want that role but he seemed to like it in pitt


i just looked and when u joined. i have the seniority, therefore i won't surrender my name. thief!! lol

#22 jramsey4

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:14 PM

I found another promising guy:

Eric DeCosta:

Posted Image
Director of College Scouting - Baltimore Ravens. He's been a member of the Ravens organization in some form or another since 1996. His background is in personnel and scouting.

The Ravens hired DeCosta in 1996 as a player personnel assistant. His first draft in 1996 netted Baltimore 2 future Hall of Famers in Jonathan Ogden (Round 1) and Ray Lewis (Round 2). In 1997 he drafted Peter Boulware (1st), Jamie Sharper (2nd), Kim Herring (2nd) and Jeff Mitchell (5th) that all started 6 or more years.

After two years, he moved up as the Mid-West Area Scout during his time in this postion the Ravens were excellent at drafting. However, his first 2 seasons in this position were a bit less successful, only finding 2 players (Chris McAlister and Edwin Mulitalo) that have started 8 years. Duane Starks has been a serviceable player for the team throughout his career as well.

2000 had Jamal Lewis and Travis Taylor in the 1st round. Both 7 year starters.

2001 had Todd Heap, Gary Baxter, Casey Rabach and Ed Hartwell. All have started at least 3 seasons for the Ravens.

2002 1st 3 picks: Ed Reed, Anthony Weaver, Dave Zastudil. All 5+ year starters.

2003 Terrell Suggs and Kyle Boller. 4+ year starters and 1st round picks

In 2003 the Ravens promoted DeCosta to Director of College Scouting where he's been to this day. At the time of his hiring, he was the youngest Director of College Scouting in the NFL.

His drafts since haven't been as star-studded but still impressive considering 2004 is only 4 years out.

Bottom Line: DeCosta has been in an organization that has stressed the importance of the draft. They have succeeded in that respect. The most impressive thing I noticed was how successful the Ravens have been on hitting on there 1st day picks. This means that they're usually picking up impact players.

#23 Wither

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:06 PM

I think they mentioned DeCosta during a game, or games, before as well and I believe they were giving him some credit.

#24 jramsey4

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:48 PM

2. Marc Ross Giants College Scouting Coordinator (My Favorite Candidate) - He was part of the brain trust in Philly that drafted Mcnabb and got booed for taking him over one of the all time bust Ricky Williams. Was first promoted to his current position with the Eagles in 2000 and is responsible for Brian Westbrook, Lito Sheppard and Derrick Burgess. His climb and good standing with the Eagles ended, however, four years later. Modrak (the GM at the time) had butted heads with the organization and was fired, followed out the door soon after by his entire staff.

2004: Then he got rehired as a Scout for the Bills and was part of the scouting dept that scouted and drafted Marshawn Lynch, linebacker Paul Posluszny and quarterback Trent Edwards -- each of them started as rookies.

2007: He got his job with the Giants in 2007 where in his first year he was directly responsible of this list of players.

1 20 Aaron Ross - CB
2 19 Steve Smith - WR
3 18 Jay Alford - DT
4 17 Zak DeOssie - LB
5 16 Kevin Boss - TE
6 15 Adam Koets - T
7 14 Michael Johnson - S
7 40 Ahmad Bradshaw - RB

All of these players made the team and contributed from day 1 and were a very big reason they won the Super Bowl. Now Ross, Smith, Johnson, Boss, are all starters (wow 4 starters in 1 draft). Koets is there version of Hangartner (man thats a hard name to spell) and Bradshaw is a very good change of pace back.

Bottom Line: One draft like the one he orchestrated in 2007 and a franchise is set for 3 or 4 years. He is by far my favorite candidate and Richardson needs to take a long look at this guy because I think he has a really good eye for talent.


I thought I would give you the updated stats on these guys for Ross first and second darft as Director of College Scouting.

Aaron Ross: 2007: 42 Tkls 35 Solo Tkls, 9 Pass Deflected and 3 INTs 2008: 52 tkls 48 Solo Tkls, 8 PD and 3 INTs 2009 (through 3): Injuried

Steve Smith: 2007: 8 rec 63 yards 2008: 57 rec 574 yds 1 td 2009 (so far): 37 rec 481 yds 4 tds

Jay Alford: 2007: Nothing Really 2008: 15 tkls and 2.5 sacks 2009: IR

Zak Deossie: Backup LS/LB and Special teams

Kevin Boss: 2007: 9 rec 118 yds 2 tds (huge post season) 2008: 33 rec 384 yds 6tds 2009: 10 rec 143 yds

Adam Koets: Backup T/G

Michael Johnson: 2007: 25 tkls 23 solo 2 PD 2008: 72 tkls 4 PD 2 INT 2009: 21 tkls 15 solos 1 sack 1 PD

Amhad Bradshaw: 2007: 23 att 190 yds 1 tds 2008: 67atts 355 yds 1 td 2009: 58 atts 375 yds 2 tds


His 2008 Draft

32nd overall Pick: Kenny Phillips: 2008: 67 tkls 55 solos 5 PD 1 Int 2009: 13 tkls 9 solos 2 ints 2 PD

63rd Pick: Terrell Thomas: 2008: 45 tkls 39 solos 4 PD 1 int 2009: 17 Tkls 14 solo 4pd 1 Ints 1 FF

95th Pick: Mario Mannaningham: 2008: 4 rec 26 yds 2009: 20 rec 342 yds 3 tds

The Rest have been Decent depth


You got to admit this guy is good.

#25 Mr. Scot

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:02 AM

I like Reggie McKenzie as GM.
I'm also very much in favor of dropping Koncz as Pro Personnel. I really would prefer Gregory stay.

Agree with this.

Looking up info on McKenzie, I found an interesting Forbes article from April of this year. They ranked the teams who had done the best and worst jobs of drafting over the past three years using a methodology described in this excerpt.

To find the NFL's best and worst teams at drafting, we looked at the last three years of drafts for all 32 NFL teams. To judge the success or failure of the drafting teams, we looked at the percentage of players from those three draft classes who were still listed as active members of the team.

We gave a little extra weight to players who had made the Associated Press' All-Pro first and second teams--the players deemed as that year's best at their respective positions. Membership in this elite group is difficult to crack for a young player, as many long-tenured veterans make the All-Pro team year after year based only on reputation (take the N.Y. Jets' Alan Faneca).


Best and Worst NFL Draft Teams: Forbes.com


No, Forbes isn't a sports magazine, but I think the method they used makes some sense.

Here are the results.

The Best:

1. Houston Texans (85% of their draft picks made the roster; not so hot in the free agent area though)
2. Indianapolis Colts (90% made the roster, better record; of course, they have that Manning guy)
3. New York Giants (supporting JR4's idea)
4. Seattle Seahawks (Squirrel would sign on to this due to Owen Schmitt)
5. Denver Broncos (though they were chided for trading Cutler)

The Worst (hang on to your hats)

1. New England Patriots (seems the 06-08 drafts haven't been kind to the Pats; good pro-personnel work has made up for it though)
2. Saint Louis Rams (what was the name of that guy they hired again? Tony something)
3. Pittsburgh Steelers (you read right, at least according to the Forbes method over the 06-08 period)
4. Miami Dolphins (Squirrel might jump off jere, but should keep in mind the 09 draft isn't included)
5. Cincinnati Bengals (this one really shocks me...okay, no it doesn't)

Again, keep in mind this is only a three year window, but it is the most recent three years.

#26 Mr. Scot

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 04:53 AM

So here's a breakdown of guys that could conceivably be GM candidates who haven't been mentioned (or mentioned much) in this thread yet.

RETREADS


Floyd Reese (former Titans GM; currently a consultant with the Patriots)

Reese was as big a reason for the Titans successful years as Jeff Fisher was. That said, he also pulled some major boners, the biggest being the drafting of Pac Man Jones. A power struggle with Fisher eventually forced him out and into a seat on ESPN's NFL Live, but now he's back in the game and apparently wants to be a GM again.


Randy Mueller (former Saints GM, Dolphins GM, Seahawks personnel guy; currently working with the scouting department of the Chargers)

Like most guys, Mueller has his hits (LeCharles Bentley, Charles Grant, Darren Howard, Walter Jones, Ahman Green, Deuce McAllister) and misses (J T O'Sullivan, Lamar King, Brock Huard). He drafted a couple of guys that ended up Panthers (Jason Kyle, Tutan Reyes). He's been fired more than once, and opinion on his prowess as a GM can vary, a lot.


Terry Bradway (former Jets GM, current Jets personnel executive)

Bradway was "promoted" to make room for Mike Tannenbaum but might want to get back into the actual GM role. His record with New York? Good points, bad points. Truthfully, you could say the same of Tannenbaum.


Rick Spielman (former Dolphins GM, current VP of player personnel, Vikings)

Spielman is the brother of former Lions and Browns LB Chris Spielman. He wasn't always the most popular guy with the Dolphins but has had success with the Vikes, including helping pull off the Jared Allen acquisition. Would he be good? Probably. Is he obtainable? Doubt it.

Tom Modrak (former Eagles GM, Steelers scouting director; current assistant GM, Bills)

Modrak fits best in the "oh how the mighty have fallen' department. He was once considered "the next big thing" while with the Steelers and was expected to take the Eagles to the promised land. But now after he and the Eagles parted ways (not so amicably) he's been with the Bills for a while. Anyone who's watched the Bills of the last few years likely isn't impressed, at all.


Joe Gibbs (former Redskins head coach; currently president of Joe Gibbs Racing in NASCAR)

Why do I bring up Joe Gibbs you ask? Two reasons. One, Gibbs was the guy Jerry Richardson originally wanted to hire as the first Panthers head coach. He believed Gibbs could build the team from the ground up, and who knows what would have happened had Gibbs accepted? Two, there's a rumor that the Redskins want Gibbs to replace Vinny Cerrato. If they can look that way, why not us? Why not? Well, because Gibbs last stint with the Skins wasn't so hot, and who knows if he'd actually even want the job?


Phil Savage (former Browns GM, Ravens personnel guy under Ozzie Newsome; currently not in the NFL)

I mention Savage as a possible candidate strictly because of his work under Ozzie Newsome. That, honestly, may be the only positive point on his resume'. When he's actually been in charge of a team, the results haven't been good. Some might argue that other factors affected that. Regardless, I mention him because his name could come up, but I'm not interested (ditto recent Browns GM George Kokinis).



FORMER COACHES


Bill Cowher (former Steelers head coach)

Said to want "full control" as both a head coach and GM. The Richardsons are said to hate this model. And worth noting that while his head coaching career can be considered a success, there's no real evidence to indicate he'd make a good GM.


Mike Holmgren (former Packers head coach, Seahawks head coach/GM)

Had a fairly successful run as coach in Seattle, but worth noting that there came a point when the Seahawks essentially forced him to give up the GM rols and stick to coaching. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.


Mike Shanahan (former Broncos head coach)

See Cowher, Bill. Related info: see Elway, John. Again, there's no real evidence that Shanahan could be a good GM. He never succeeded all that much with the Broncos minus John Elway.


Bill Parcells (formerly with Cowboys, Jets, Patriots, Giants; currently Dolphins president)

Yeah, I know it's time for Parcells to start getting the itch to move on. For my part though, I'm not buyingt hat he leaves the Dolphins anytime soon. For the record, even if he did, I wouldn't want him. His record at his last few jobs hasn't exactly been the stuff of legend.



POSSIBLE UP AND COMERS

Some of the good choices have already been discussed (Hughes, Ross, Raye, Webster, DeCosta, Hughes). One other has been mentioned, but not expounded on (McKenzie). I'll discuss McKenzie, and add a few more names to the list.


Reggie McKenzie (director of football operations, Packers)

Packers have a decent record in the personnel department (again, Favre notwithstanding) and McKenzie is considered a high character guy. He had a few years experience under legendary Packer GM Ron Wolf. Interesting note from the Packers staff page, both he and John Schneider have the title "Director of Football Operations" but they have different duties. Schneider could conceivably be worth a look too (need to read more) but McKenzie's better known. Downside? The Pack has had some down years too, and some mistakes have been glaringly bad (like this year's tackle spots).


Scott Cohen (assistant GM, Jets)

Worked seven years prior for the Eagles, a team that's both drafted and played the free agent game fairly well. Now with the Jets, who are also doing okay in the personnel department (outside of the Favre thing last year). I put a fair amount of stock in having connections with Philly since they've been a perennial contender. The downside? They've never gotten over the hump and won the big one, and it took years for them to finally address needs at the WR spot.


Vincent Newsome (director of pro personnel, Ravens)

Yep, he's Ozzie's son. In fairness though, he has a decent resume' of his own. Add in that the genes and the ability to chat with dad certainly don't hurt. Better choice between him and DeCosta? Honestly uncertain. The question would be whether the apple falls far from the tree, and that's a big unknown at this point.


Bobby Grier (associate director of player personnel, Texans)

If you take the Forbes article seriously, Grier (and perhaps college scouting director Dale Strahm) are two guys to take into consideration. Prior to joining the Texans in 2000, Grier spent 18 years with the Patriots. Sounds positive, except if you happen to remember that the Pats best years came after he left.


Les Snead (director of player personnel, Falcons)

Has helped bring some good players to the Falcons. Also worked with the Jaguars during their first three seasons when they enjoyed similar success (some would say greater) than the Panthers. Downside? He's been there long enough to have been part of the Michael Vick debacle. Assistant director Lionel Vital has a shorter resume, but could be worth more research (previously a scout with the Ravens). Worth noting that making a hire from a division rival might not be easy.


Greg Gabriel (director of college scouting, Bears)

Couldn't honestly decide whether I was more interested in Gabriel or Bobby DePaul (senior director of pro personnel). Both have decent resumes', with DePaul having spent time with the Eagles front office and Gabriel with the Giants. I settled on Gabriel because I think overall the Bears have done better at drafting than they have free agency, but I'd agree it could be debated. gabriel has drafted some winners, for sure.. He also drafted a fellow named Rex Grossman though (ouch).


Ryan Grigson (director of college scouting, Eagles)

Said previously that I value experience with the Eagles front office, so it's natural to look at a guy from there right? Grigson has been in his job the past six years, a time in which the eagles have done okay. As candidates go though, he's fairly wet behind the ears. Working under Tom Heckert certainly helps though. Opinion of him may depend on how much you value experience.


So there you go. Add these choices to your consideration of who you'd like to get as a new GM next year.

And then after you do that, take a moment to remember that it's for from a lock that we'll be in the market for a new GM next year :sosp:

Edited by Mr Scot, 30 November 2009 - 01:41 AM.


#27 Mr. Scot

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 05:09 AM

FYI: For my next post, I'm gonna research who we should get to be our new waterboy :sosp:

#28 jramsey4

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 07:47 AM

FYI: For my next post, I'm gonna research who we should get to be our new waterboy :sosp:


Biggest weakness on our staff.

I gotta another one Jason Licht (pronounced LIGHT) is in his 14th NFL season and re-joined the Patriots this year after previously spending four seasons (1999-2002) with New England. Last season, Licht served as a personnel executive for the NFC Champion Arizona Cardinals after spending five seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles as vice president of player personnel (2006-07) and assistant director of player personnel (2003-05). Anyone see a theme Patriots (99-02 1 SB, 03-07 eagles many playoff appearances 1 SB appearance, 08 Cards SB appearance) thats an impressive track record.

Edited by jramsey4, 10 November 2009 - 08:02 AM.


#29 Mr. Scot

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 10:41 AM

Biggest weakness on our staff.

I gotta another one Jason Licht (pronounced LIGHT) is in his 14th NFL season and re-joined the Patriots this year after previously spending four seasons (1999-2002) with New England. Last season, Licht served as a personnel executive for the NFC Champion Arizona Cardinals after spending five seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles as vice president of player personnel (2006-07) and assistant director of player personnel (2003-05). Anyone see a theme Patriots (99-02 1 SB, 03-07 eagles many playoff appearances 1 SB appearance, 08 Cards SB appearance) thats an impressive track record.

Good find.

No shortage of candidates, for certain.

Will there actually be a vacancy, though?

I'm not holding my breath.

#30 mountainpantherfan

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:50 AM

I like Ross, Newsome, Grier, Grigson and Licht.

And to answer your question Mr. Scot, I am hoping for a change at GM more than head coach and yes I think that is more likely than Fox getting fired.


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