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Ivan The Awesome

One thing is clear, the brass is giving Shula the benefit of the doubt.

72 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:


Not using the injury excuse, we do not have the personal to counter what teams threw at us last year. I'm still waiting to hear the magically adjustments the offense could make last year to improve?

We had missed fgs, players having turnovers in the most crucial moments, drops and poor route running, piss poor blocking whether pass blocking or run blocking. These alone cause 5 losses last year off the top of my head and are not the oc fault. Not to mention multiple times Cam took a sack that knocked us out of fg range. Overall performance of the offense was unacceptable, and to pin that on one guy is just not logical IMO


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I'm not pinning it on one guy but the things that screwed us should be addressed except one area. Pass blocking can be fixed, route running too, new blood and better players. Here's the thing we arnt changing our OC or even Dorsey and that worries the crap outta me. Because I haven't seen anything in all his years that would make me think he's a great OC. You can point to 15-1 or 12-4 all you want but all I see is 7-8-1, 6-10. Until I see us go all the way and actually WIN it then I'm not going to be swayed. 

Maybe that's unfair but it's the only thing not changed and if we dont stay competitive and don't have this up and down every year cycle I'll continue to blame Shula. I want a dangerous offence that puts us in the playoffs every year we have so much talent and it's killing me to see TD, Olsen, Kalil, CJ, and our other vets waste thier last year's not getting that Lombardi. 

 

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Just now, CarolinaSamurai said:

He did? He changed the offense? Man I had no idea watching those games. The high scoring offense was in very close games sometimes big scores from the defense too. Unlike last year those close games went for us but it was the same kind of scheme. 

But let's say he did. Ok then why after losing to the falcons in the same way we lost to the broncos that year we did nothing to address the issue? Where was this change in offence at the end when you SAW a team get to Cam and win. Why didn't Shula give Remmers help, or run plays that stops the crazy blitz they kept doing? We lost the biggest game because of the offense and a large part of that was Shula and there's zero things you can say to change it. Our defense was a powerhouse and played way to much because our offense couldn't stay on the field. And it was a big part attributed to Shula.

We were 6-10 and had plenty of 3 point games were it coulda gone either way. Same as our 15-1 season but they went our way. 

I hope he can evolve and your right but if not he and Ron are gone and I hate it. 

If you can't see the complexity and wrinkles in our run game we likely can't have a discussion because one of us doesn't have a clue. Yeah we had the same run game in 2016 as 2015 and as Shula predicted, the defenses were going to catch up with us. Remember also that complex blocking schemes require what? Lineman who have skill and develop chemistry with each other. One missed assignment results in a busted play or sack.

So the offense started out top 10 until Oher goes down and so does the offense. Add that even by week 5 Cam is shellshocked and talking about not liking the game any more.  Then the injuries and defensive collapses and it was a perfect storm when you add the post Superbowl loser blues.

Do I think that this is a make it break year. I think so. I think Gettleman thinks so as well. I would think JR knows that any year could be now or never for him so I think the whole team is all in. If we pick up guys like Howard or McCaffrey or Fournette then Shula might have what he needs to be good and he better evolve things to improve the passing game using  2 tight ends  and a fast slot receiver. If he doesn't then even I would be on the make a change bandwagon. 

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29 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

It was a problem in 2015 but winning covers up the fact that we nearly blew a bunch of multiple touchdown leads. 

2016- blew 10pt lead in 4th quarter vs Broncos, blew 17pt lead vs Chiefs, blew 8pt lead against the Raiders by punting on 4th and 1 near midfield.

But those losses were due to defensive collapses.  If you trust the defense you can keep being aggressive knowing everything is being covered. With an injured and ineffective secondary early and without Luke for the last third of the season, it is hard to blame Ron for playing it safe and trying to avoid major mistakes. After the first Atlanta game the secondary was targeted every game. We were only decent against the run because everyone passed at will. I guess it depends how you like to lose, by degrees or big chunks. I think he did everything he knew to do but was in uncharted territory.  I expect this year to be 2005 again just like 2015 was 2003 and 2016 was eerily similar to 2004. Only this time get home field and make the Super Bowl go through Charlotte again.

Edited by panthers55

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Just now, panthers55 said:

But those losses were due to defensive collapses. 

I would say they were due to both defense and offense not responding to opponents' adjustments in the second half.

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9 hours ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

We need to get Cam a weapon as special as he is a QB

there can only be one GOAT

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9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

If you can't see the complexity and wrinkles in our run game we likely can't have a discussion because one of us doesn't have a clue. Yeah we had the same run game in 2016 as 2015 and as Shula predicted, the defenses were going to catch up with us. Remember also that complex blocking schemes require what? Lineman who have skill and develop chemistry with each other. One missed assignment results in a busted play or sack.

So the offense started out top 10 until Oher goes down and so does the offense. Add that even by week 5 Cam is shellshocked and talking about not liking the game any more.  Then the injuries and defensive collapses and it was a perfect storm when you add the post Superbowl loser blues.

Do I think that this is a make it break year. I think so. I think Gettleman thinks so as well. I would think JR knows that any year could be now or never for him so I think the whole team is all in. If we pick up guys like Howard or McCaffrey or Fournette then Shula might have what he needs to be good and he better evolve things to improve the passing game using  2 tight ends  and a fast slot receiver. If he doesn't then even I would be on the make a change bandwagon. 

Yes our run game is complex. I do understand that without a good Oline to support that we become one dimensional in a area Cam struggles in which is passing quickly under pressure. I know the team has issue but those can be fixed with a good draft and free agency. What cant be fixed is how the offense is called and outside of running I would like to see a more advanced passing game with hitchest, slants, fast get the ball out quick type plays. I've seen Shula try but fail at those attempts. The thing is he is really bad at adjustments when what he does doesn't work. I want to be competitive and in the playoffs every year like the Patriots, green bay, Seattle. The only thing that isn't changing is Shula and unless he starts to change for the better than we will always be up and down.

Edited by CarolinaSamurai

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13 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

But those losses were due to defensive collapses. 

Offense bears some of the blame. Short 3 and out drives left a gassed defense on the field. In any of those cases one long drive or one more score would have put the game out of reach. We had six 4th quarters (also six 3rd quarters) where we didn't score a point. 

If you remove the four games we had productive 2nd halfs (the beatdown of the 49ers, the ATL and NO shootouts, and the Raiders comeback) we scored an average of SIX points in the 2nd half this season. We averaged double that in the 1st half of games.

That points to a clear inability to finish games, whether it was due to lack of in-game adjustments or playing to protect a lead instead of going for the kill.

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13 minutes ago, CarolinaSamurai said:

Yes our run game is complex. I do understand that without a good Oline to support that we become one dimensional in a area Cam struggles in which is passing quickly under pressure. I know the team has issue but those can be fixed with a good draft and free agency. What cant be fixed is how the offense is called and outside of running I would like to see a more advanced passing game with hitchest, slants, fast get the ball out quick type plays. I've seen Shula try but fail at those attempts. The thing is he is really bad at adjustments when what he does doesn't work. I want to be competitive and in the playoffs every year like the Patriots, green bay, Seattle. The only thing that isn't changing is Shula and unless he starts to change for the better than we will always be up and down.

I am just as hopeful about finally getting the players we need on offense. I think Howard would be a great addition and if coupled with a slot receiver like McCaffrey would change our passing game immensely. 

I suspect Shula will change or evolve or whatever the catch phrase is now. He has to just like all the other coaches including Rivera and Gettleman. I think everyone knows this is a critical year. The difference is you don't think Shula knows what he is doing and I subscribe to the notion that in a copycat league it isn't hard to see what everyone is doing and copy their plays or what they are doing. With a whole staff to help you anyone can develop a gameplan and make each accountable for adjustments. So the blame is shared by the offensive staff. Let's see how they do. After the draft when I see who we get and will make my prediction about the offense. Last year I said the secondary was going to kill us which was always countered by our great front seven would make up the difference. Yeah we see who was unfortunately right 

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12 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

Offense bears some of the blame. Short 3 and out drives left a gassed defense on the field. In any of those cases one long drive or one more score would have put the game out of reach. We had six 4th quarters (also six 3rd quarters) where we didn't score a point. 

If you remove the four games we had productive 2nd halfs (the beatdown of the 49ers, the ATL and NO shootouts, and the Raiders comeback) we scored an average of SIX points in the 2nd half this season. We averaged double that in the 1st half of games.

That points to a clear inability to finish games, whether it was due to lack of in-game adjustments or playing to protect a lead instead of going for the kill.

You forgot the lack of points due to poor execution which was overwhelmingly the case and caused by multiple of causes like pressing too much, trying to do too much with the ball (fumbles), mental lapses, crucial drops. It was contagious. It is interesting you mention adjustments and playing it safe which are issues of varying importance without acknowledging the huge black and blue elephant in the room. 

Edited by panthers55

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I'm not pinning it on one guy but the things that screwed us should be addressed except one area. Pass blocking can be fixed, route running too, new blood and better players. Here's the thing we arnt changing our OC or even Dorsey and that worries the crap outta me. Because I haven't seen anything in all his years that would make me think he's a great OC. You can point to 15-1 or 12-4 all you want but all I see is 7-8-1, 6-10. Until I see us go all the way and actually WIN it then I'm not going to be swayed. 
Maybe that's unfair but it's the only thing not changed and if we dont stay competitive and don't have this up and down every year cycle I'll continue to blame Shula. I want a dangerous offence that puts us in the playoffs every year we have so much talent and it's killing me to see TD, Olsen, Kalil, CJ, and our other vets waste thier last year's not getting that Lombardi. 
 

I understand your point there's just a couple things I'd like to add. For one I believe Dorsey should have been replaced, it's not Shula's job to be in Cam's ear about audibles, check downs, missed receivers, situational awareness(not taking a sack here we're in fg range) footwork. We saw the MVP of league regress badly in all those areas.

Two, the notion to replace Shula because we can do better is correct in a way, but looking at our franchise as a whole that had never been our strong point. We could do better in a lot of areas but either decide to be complacent, look at how long our ST coach stuck around. We are not the patriots when it comes to coordinator changes or personal changes, doesn't mean we shouldn't be but it's something ive grown accustomed to. But regardless Shula still should be towards the bottom of the list of upgrades this team needs to get a Super Bowl.


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