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panther4life

2016 losses recap.(Shula haters you have some explaining to do)

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KillerKat    11,456
9 minutes ago, panther4life said:

I've always argued that Blaming Shula is the laziest excuse I have ever seen panther fans make. First 4 responses only strengthen my stance on that. I'm open for debate on the matter, I presented my case in favor of him,someone please show me how I am wrong. 

 

 You're not really "open" for any discussion. Your presentation was made with strong bias and nothing said will change anything. You're only looking for an answer to belittle. You're asking for specific plays knowing good well it is hard for anyone to remember all the specific plays. Point blank, it's obvious when watching games Shula is a big problem and like I said if you don't see it then you aren't paying attention or just refusing to acknowledge it. 

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JawnyBlaze    5,373

It's easy for the Shula apologists to make claims like this because his is a subtle effect on the whole offense that handicaps it.  He's not out there fumbling balls or dropping passes himself, he just doesn't put our players in a very good position to make plays.  

His run game plan is often not bad, or even quite good in some cases.  His passing game plan is atrocious. Always has been. "Oh but our passing game put up x number of yards" or "we got x number of points".  That is the effect of our mv fuging p QB dragging this offense along.  There's not really much of a quantifiable stat you can use to prove or disprove that.  It's just one of those things you either see it, or you don't.  

Once in a while you'll have the SF playoff game a few years ago that was 4 straight runs up the middle against a great front 7 that was obviously having no effect and you can say "see? Shula is fuging dumb"  or flea flickers to Jericho freaking cotchery but more often than not it's just watching the flow of the game and noticing a pattern of ineptitude.  Other teams have mentioned it.  Wade Phillips all but came out and said "yea, their OC is a dumbass" after the super bowl.  By some accounts (I haven't seen the source quotes myself, so I won't testify to the veracity of the sentiment) Gettleman has seen it as well, but Ron has protected Shula.  This will always be a debate until we get rid of him and hopefully get a legit OC with the same or at least similar offensive talent.  Just like some people will always believe Cam is overrated and just a running QB and nothing will change their minds, some will always believe Shula is a competent OC. 

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KillerKat    11,456
1 minute ago, panther4life said:
  • st and 10 at TB 20

    (0:09 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CAR-M.Remmers, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at TB 20 - No Play.

  •  

    (0:10 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by TB at 00:10.

  • 1st and 15 at TB 25

    (0:10 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Anderson pass incomplete deep middle to G.Olsen (K.Alexander).

  • 2nd and 15 at TB 25

    (0:05 - 2nd) G.Gano 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Jansen, Holder-A.Lee.

I'll chalk this one up to bad memory by you.

Thanks for making my point

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NJPanthers12    1,305
3 minutes ago, panther4life said:
  • st and 10 at TB 20

    (0:09 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CAR-M.Remmers, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at TB 20 - No Play.

  •  

    (0:10 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by TB at 00:10.

  • 1st and 15 at TB 25

    (0:10 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Anderson pass incomplete deep middle to G.Olsen (K.Alexander).

  • 2nd and 15 at TB 25

    (0:05 - 2nd) G.Gano 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Jansen, Holder-A.Lee.

I'll chalk this one up to bad memory by you.

  • 1st and Goal at TB 1

    (8:45 - 4th) D.Anderson pass short right intended for G.Olsen INTERCEPTED by B.Grimes at TB -5. Touchback.

no clue what you're talking about

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panther4life    2,365
8 minutes ago, NJPanthers12 said:
  • 1st and Goal at TB 1

    (8:45 - 4th) D.Anderson pass short right intended for G.Olsen INTERCEPTED by B.Grimes at TB -5. Touchback.

no clue what you're talking about

Thanks for correcting me on that one and providing an actual example. I didn't start this thread to pick a fight. In hindsight the title may look it appear that way. I just can't blame all of our struggles on Shula. I never said he's a genius or anything like that, however I feel he is good enough to take us to the promise land. If others feel differently than you can go ahead and write of 2017 as a blown season.

Looking back, that was the play I mentioned in the OP where I said Anderson had 2 options. Benjamin or Tolbert. He chose wrong and forced it into double coverage.

 

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panthers55    5,379
9 minutes ago, Adb6368 said:

It's not about what the final score is, it's about how you get to the final score people have complaints about. Throwing the ball on MNF with your backup QB inside the 2? Yea... maybe not such a great idea. How about throwing on the first play of MNF when you've benched your MVP QB? Yea... maybe not such a great idea.

Not saying the players don't deserve their fair share of the blame but with known deficiencies in your roster sometimes you ask yourself why the coaches don't see what is blatantly obvious to the defense.

Again who decided to throw the ball? Shula or Anderson. Who opted for the pass play instead of changing it up as they are trained to do based on the defense?

That is the problem here. When there is an issue, Shula sucks. When the quarterback audibilized as Shula thought them to do, it was in spite of Shula. When they don't, it is Shula's fault again. What is at fault is the logic used to scapegoat him for everything.

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panther4life    2,365
3 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Compare amount of times Cam audibled in 2015 VS 2016.

There's your answer.

If its that simple then why did Cam get away from calling audibles? Or do you not think Cam has enough clout to ask for a coaching change if he believes Shula is holding him back? Gentleman wasn't afraid of parting ways with Steve Smith because he thought he was hindering Cam's development.

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juliosantos    1,121

His conservative bullshatt playcalls caused us alot of games like dumb plays like running up the middle with fozzy

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Fox007    4,276

Watch every NFL game you're able to at least 5 per week then see for yourself the difference between good and bad calls and good and ball OCs.

Can't have this argument when all most of you do is watch the Panthers then turn the channel. You're comparing Shula to ...nothing at all.

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panthers55    5,379
13 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

It's easy for the Shula apologists to make claims like this because his is a subtle effect on the whole offense that handicaps it.  He's not out there fumbling balls or dropping passes himself, he just doesn't put our players in a very good position to make plays.  

His run game plan is often not bad, or even quite good in some cases.  His passing game plan is atrocious. Always has been. "Oh but our passing game put up x number of yards" or "we got x number of points".  That is the effect of our mv fuging p QB dragging this offense along.  There's not really much of a quantifiable stat you can use to prove or disprove that.  It's just one of those things you either see it, or you don't.  

Once in a while you'll have the SF playoff game a few years ago that was 4 straight runs up the middle against a great front 7 that was obviously having no effect and you can say "see? Shula is fuging dumb"  or flea flickers to Jericho freaking cotchery but more often than not it's just watching the flow of the game and noticing a pattern of ineptitude.  Other teams have mentioned it.  Wade Phillips all but came out and said "yea, their OC is a dumbass" after the super bowl.  By some accounts (I haven't seen the source quotes myself, so I won't testify to the veracity of the sentiment) Gettleman has seen it as well, but Ron has protected Shula.  This will always be a debate until we get rid of him and hopefully get a legit OC with the same or at least similar offensive talent.  Just like some people will always believe Cam is overrated and just a running QB and nothing will change their minds, some will always believe Shula is a competent OC. 

It couldn't be the passing game sucks because our receivers are bottom five as a group, right?  Sure Cam bailed us out in 2015 with a pretty good line but played badly in 2016 due to a horrible beat up line. And no Wade didn't call him a dumbass, the comment was we did the exact same think in the Superbowl we did the rest of the season that netted us 15 wins and an offense that scored over 30 points a game. Gee I wonder why we didn't.make major adjustments? And Gettleman has never blamed the offense or said he wanted Shula gone. One beat writer speculated about it and suddenly it is fact. Some people will blame Shula for everything regardless of the facts to the contrary.

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