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panther4life

2016 losses recap.(Shula haters you have some explaining to do)

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10 hours ago, Hoenheim said:

Yeah I will hate that Benji strip fumble against the Cheifs until the day I die. That was me at my angriest in any game of the whole season, besides the first ATL game when Julio ran roughshod over fuging everyone.

Makes it worse he's a big ass 6'5'' possession receiver with gigantic hands and muscles, and you get stripped like a punk in a critical late game scenario is almost unforgivable.

I'm sorry, but anyone blaming KB for the Chiefs loss is misguided. Love the Shula backers, but that game was lost well before that because of horrible play calls and not understanding situational strategy. 1st and 10 on the KC 20 in a 10 minute drive. We are up 14 and KC's offense isn't doing anything against our defense and it is just about the 4th quarter. You have to, I repeat, you have to get a FG and go up 3 scores. What do we do? Get sacked twice on 2nd and 3rd down and you have to punt. The punt is a touchback, so we just gave the ball to KC where we had it on 1st down. Situational football says, run the ball 3 times and get a FG and see if Alex Smith, a guy who's best total game TD count was 3 in the past few years, can beat you in the fourth. Instead, we put Cam in a situation where a pick 6 ties the game. We could have run every play after that in the 4th quarter and would have won with no issues.

10 hours ago, panther4life said:

If a player fumbles a ball on long drive, then how can Shula be at fault for that. 

Please, if you are going to use the "long drive" let's get that one right since our long drive that stalled was the KC one. See above. No fumble to blame, only Shula.

10 hours ago, Khaki Lackey said:

So far is this thread:
"Dumbass throws on first and goal from the one!"
"Dumbass runs the ball three times in a row on first and goal!"
"Dumbass with the long developing routes!"
"Dumbass with the dipsy doo screens!"
"Dumbass calls for short routes when we need long yardage and vice versa, yet is completely predictable!"
Shula is all things to all people. I think he is evil incarnate and the worst person that has ever walked the earth. (I like to channel my outrage, and until Shula wins me over with a bitchin' yogurt commercial, he will continue to be my target.)

Makes sense that he gets too much blame, but maybe the other way to look at what you wrote is the situations. Again, see the KC game above. We passed when we should have run and kicked a FG to go up 3 scores. Same with the DA pick on 1st and goal from the 1. Your backup QB is in, your defense is stopping Tampa, run the ball. Heck, if you are going to pass, let's do a play action fake you see so much, not a pass play where there are two defenders on Olsen. Don't we have a play where a backup TE slips into the back of the end zone like everyone else does?

Also, the dipsy doo screen was an abomination that we ran right in front of our goal line with a team with good edge rushers. It was an awful play call that cost us the game, not Olsen not coming up with a great catch. It might be better to not force your QB to basically throw the screen pass without knowing if someone covered the RB. Just do a normal screen so Cam can throw the ball in the ground.

Sorry, but the OP's post was about blaming every loss on someone else besides Shula. Shula carries a good amount of blame in those losses as well. Heck, I can even point to Denver where we saw Cam asking the sideline for a play call as evidence for the play calling forcing us to blow our 2nd half timeouts thus forcing us to lose two more potential plays to get Gano closer. We had to ground the ball on 2nd down and kick the FG on 3rd down.

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15 hours ago, panthers55 said:

It couldn't be the passing game sucks because our receivers are bottom five as a group, right?  Sure Cam bailed us out in 2015 with a pretty good line but played badly in 2016 due to a horrible beat up line. And no Wade didn't call him a dumbass, the comment was we did the exact same think in the Superbowl we did the rest of the season that netted us 15 wins and an offense that scored over 30 points a game. Gee I wonder why we didn't.make major adjustments? And Gettleman has never blamed the offense or said he wanted Shula gone. One beat writer speculated about it and suddenly it is fact. Some people will blame Shula for everything regardless of the facts to the contrary.

I do not blame him for everything but he is not a genius..He is being paid to create plays and put his players in the best position to score Tds and not settle for field goals ..Ron has much blame in this too.  If Dave gets Shula upgrades and we have the same results then you know whats up...My thing with Shula is that he must not know his players strengths and weaknesses because most plays I see I know they are not going anywhere because the player does not fit the play or the timing of the play is just wrong..He is a coordinator but he is off on the timing, and players that fit the scheme...Football is a game of match ups and if your skill positions are weak you have to be able to scheme around those or become creative..read option is not creative.

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Dude, game flow does mean something. You can't cherry pick a few plays and say Shula is doing his job. Many times, NFL games come down to the wire, and at that instant a bad play call blows (or at least lessens) your chance of victory. It's just not practical to judge an OC without looking at games in their totality.

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15 minutes ago, Darvinsun said:

I do not blame him for everything but he is not a genius..He is being paid to create plays and put his players in the best position to score Tds and not settle for field goals ..Ron has much blame in this too.  If Dave gets Shula upgrades and we have the same results then you know whats up...My thing with Shula is that he must not know his players strengths and weaknesses because most plays I see I know they are not going anywhere because the player does not fit the play or the timing of the play is just wrong..He is a coordinator but he is off on the timing, and players that fit the scheme...Football is a game of match ups and if your skill positions are weak you have to be able to scheme around those or become creative..read option is not creative.

I don't think anyone thinks he is a football genius and honestly he doesn't need to be. Football is a game of imitation. Look at what the good teams do and copy it and you are a genius too. I think he does know his players strengths and weaknesses but you can only scheme so much. Execution and physical ability have to be there as well. As has been said numerous times, Cam and by extension Shula have not always gotten the tools they need. Once they have it then the onus turns to them to use what they were given. That is why Gettleman has given him a pass I think. He knows a big part of the problem he shares as well. Which is why I think we will go heavier on the offensive side this year.

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12 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't think Shula has much to do with the other teams scoring a ton of points on us. 21, 27, 22, 48, 17, 41, 20, 10, 20, 20, 35, 40, 16, 15, 33, 17.

We lost three of the games where opponents scored less than 20 points on us. You can blame the offense, and thereby the OC for that. We lost every one of the games where the opponents scored 30 points or more... and we gave up 3 games with scores of 40 points or more... that is a defense completely unable to stop the opposition.

Our defense last season played a lot like the Atlanta Falcons Super Bowl defense... lights out for the first half and completely gassed by the second half. Of course, we had some very key injuries and a secondary with training wheels, but Bill Belichick couldn't survive giving up 30+ points as regularly as we did.

You can make your case with a simple "dur hur Shula sucks" and let that stand. Morons have been doing it for a while now, but you can't put all the blame for losses on his shoulders and then look at the prior season and give him no credit at all for the 15-1 season.

There's more truth to the OP's post than most can understand.

Let's see how they do this year. There was a lot at play that hurt this team in 2016, not the least of which was the extended 2015 season and a very short offseason.

One of the reasons we gave up so many points was because the offense couldn't sustain drives and kill the clock/score points while we were ahead. Also, those scores are misleading due to ST/turnovers leading to points not allowed by our defense. 

The team as a whole looked like crap last year, but Shula has looked bad more often than not. My biggest gripe with him is his lack of flexibility. If everything is going to plan, he's unstoppable. Throw in one hiccup, and things fall apart, he just can't adjust to anything. That includes scheme, injury, or personnel. I mean the dude has Bersin running bubble screens when he subs in for some reason for god's sake. 

I'm not happy we kept him, but I understand it wasn't all his fault, but the dude's body of work is definitely on the crappier side of average. It's a make or break year for Shula AND Ron in my opinion. 

 

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10 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Dude, game flow does mean something. You can't cherry pick a few plays and say Shula is doing his job. Many times, NFL games come down to the wire, and at that instant a bad play call blows (or at least lessens) your chance of victory. It's just not practical to judge an OC without looking at games in their totality.

Conversely you can't look at a few plays and blame Shula for a bad play call especially when you don't know what was called, whether Cam actually picked that play or changed pieces of it  and whether it was executed properly. You have to really know what we called and then watch film to determine what was intended. Otherwise all you know is what did happen not what was called or supposed to happen.

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the playbook is terrible and he hasn't changed it in years.

passing plays still require cam to hold the ball for far too long in the pocket. maybe they work with an average OL, but the panthers OL is well below average.

also his second half adjustments are non-existent.

imagine how many points this team would be score with even a semi-competent OC.

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15 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Conversely you can't look at a few plays and blame Shula for a bad play call especially when you don't know what was called, whether Cam actually picked that play or changed pieces of it  and whether it was executed properly. You have to really know what we called and then watch film to determine what was intended. Otherwise all you know is what did happen not what was called or supposed to happen.

I pretty much know a run play and a pass play when I see it. I can also pretty much tell when Cam is calling an audible. Regardless, I've seen a run called when we should pass, and a pass called when we should run, too many times. Seeing the RB run into a pile two straight times, setting us up for third and long, on several series in a row, is nauseating. 

 

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55 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I pretty much know a run play and a pass play when I see it. I can also pretty much tell when Cam is calling an audible. Regardless, I've seen a run called when we should pass, and a pass called when we should run, too many times. Seeing the RB run into a pile two straight times, setting us up for third and long, on several series in a row, is nauseating. 

you know what happened not what was called or audibilized to. You don't know if the runner should have run straight ahead or if the play was supposed to go outside or in. Sometimes we block to the left and that is where he should run and other times it is a misdirection to send everyone left and then go right. Sometimes a guy will miss an assignment, sometimes block the wrong guy, fail to rub off and block the blitzing defender and so forth. Sometimes we run 2 or three times up the middle to set up a play later in the game.

Without knowing what the intent is all you know is the result but most times that is a mixture of what is called, audibles which are made and execution.  Most critics ultimately assume the problem is what was called and overwhelmingly it is mostly due to how it was executed. For example ideally, when you block on the line, the defender shouldn't easily be able to know if we are running or passing. But most times when we run, blockers take a step forward and when we pass block they immediate start back pedaling. That is an execution problem not a play calling issue when defenders know what we are going to do by how we take our first step.

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1 hour ago, bobsfoodbasics said:

the playbook is terrible and he hasn't changed it in years.

passing plays still require cam to hold the ball for far too long in the pocket. maybe they work with an average OL, but the panthers OL is well below average.

also his second half adjustments are non-existent.

imagine how many points this team would be score with even a semi-competent OC.

Have you seen a playbook and were you there when they installed the gameplan for each game?

If not you don't have a clue as if you would know what a good play versus a bad play was anyway. Like the whole Cam is required to hold the ball.  That is plain stupidity. Who calls the routes and adjusts to what the defense is doing? Cam. Who if the defense is blitzing needs to change the play to something else.? Cam. If they come on a delayed blitzes, who is supposed to break off the route and be ready for a quick pass? The receiver. Who is supposed to read that and dump it off? Yeah, Cam. 

This is his offense to run. Most times he is responsible for what happens for the last 15 seconds pre snap and afterwards when the mike to his helmet is turned off.

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