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raleigh-panther

Shula unrest

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1 minute ago, pantherphan96 said:

Terrible example: Chud getting fired was criticized by the media, the fans, and the players. Just another example of the dysfunction of Jimmy Haslem and the Browns franchise. Shula not getting any attention (IMO) just shows that NFL executives are aware that this offense goes as far as Cam can carry it. 

Agree that Cleveland situation is crazy but used Chud because he was here and actually was a pretty poor head coach.

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7 hours ago, beastson said:

Lol were you here during the 2013 playoffs where Shula called 4 straight up the middle goaline runs and then did the same thing again later on in the 2nd quarter?

Did you not see the Superbowl where Shula gave no help to his offensive tackles against the best DE tandem in the NFL that year? Did you not see even in the 2nd half, he still gave no help to them

Did you not hear the Broncos D said we ran exactly what they saw on film. We didn't change anything for the SB, as if it was another regular season game

Did you not see how in the 1st game last season in the 1st half, Cam was doing 3 step drops and getting the ball out much faster and it was working great, only to revert back to 5 step drops in the 2nd half that got his ass kicked. I have yet to see Cam do a 3 step drop play since and we're supposed to be getting the ball out faster

Shula been here 5 years and all yall do is keep talking about one season. Next year yall going to be talking about that same season lol

THIS.

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While Shula does call some dumb plays at times, but opportunities have been there...players got to execute

and as with any offense, we have to run the ball succesfully...our tackles weren't the best, actually were bad, last week

stewart is a key...if he gets going, everything else opens up 

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Ever since our one loss in 2015, teams have used the same strategy to defeat us. 

In the 11 losses since then, have you seen changes in our game plan? Or are we doing the same thing, hoping for a different result?

Like I said a few pages ago, Shula has his strengths. Whoever said his offense is simple... just stop. His offense is quite complex. 

But even greater than his strengths is his unwillingness or inability to adjust. We're doing the same poo and we WILL see the same results. 

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28 minutes ago, Chimera said:

Ever since our one loss in 2015, teams have used the same strategy to defeat us. 

In the 11 losses since then, have you seen changes in our game plan? Or are we doing the same thing, hoping for a different result?

Like I said a few pages ago, Shula has his strengths. Whoever said his offense is simple... just stop. His offense is quite complex. 

But even greater than his strengths is his unwillingness or inability to adjust. We're doing the same poo and we WILL see the same results. 

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier. We see the same things but come to very different conclusions based on knowledge. For example you say we had the same gameplan for 11 games last year. That is ridiculous and no one who knew even a modicum of how teams prepare for another would say we didnt change our gameplan for each opponent. Hours and hours of film work lead to hours of matching plays to other teams tendencies and looks in certain down and distances. They aren't just pulling plays out of the air. Everything is scripted and yet fluid based on what you are setting up for later, what is working, and where you can exploit mismatches. It is a chess game that is constantly changing. So please stop with the amateurish complaint he doesn't adjust and get more specific by saying his adjustments to outside wide 9 pressure are ineffective. And then tell what he did wrong. Then I will give you some credence and we can have a discussion. Otherwise stop the parroted complaints that have no root in any substance.

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Our runningbacks YPC over the past few years haven't been good at all. I thought it was Stewart at first, then our offense line but now I think it's Shula and his predictable play calling which gives teams a heads up to stop our runs before we can even get to the line of scrimmage.

 

the article makes a great point. At 2&1 we should of threw a pass since all plays are opened up at a 2nd and 1 but Shula uses our power back to run towards the outside for a loss. We have CMC who is suited for running to the outside, not Stewart who is slow.

 

If Shula can't figure out something as simple as this by now he needs to go. It's one thing to have conservative play calling but it's a complete other when you have predictable play calling.

 

Shula not only has years of experience and basically lived football his whole life with his father but also is being paid to do this as his job. He has all the time and money to figure this kind problem out yet he never has.

 

Now I have never been on the fire Shula train and usually stand up for him but I feel I can't anymore.

 

sure Cam and the offensive line has their problems as well but a good offensive coordinator can adapt his game plan to his players. So blaming the players is an excuse.

If cam has issues throwing certain passes then you plan so he doesn't have to throw that pass.

 

if pass protection is bad and your going up against a top defensive line then you have tight ends and running backs help block while throwing short passes to prevent the D from having enough time to get to the QB.

 

does Shula do that? No he didn't. We drafted CMC for this purpose. We must start using CMC properly or else.

 

now I know we could end up with a top offense by seasons end. In 2015 we started out slow offensively, so panicking now isn't smart. 

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If anybody wants a good example of how a coach can change the whole landscape of your offense, just look at the Rams. Last year with 8-8 Fisher, they looked like they couldn't score on a college defense. Couldn't even use Gurley right. Sean McVay comes in and it's like night and day. Has Goff looking like a legit starting QB (also helped Cousins immensely), has Gurley with a huge bounce back year, etc. Good offensive minded coaches can make a mediocre unit look a hell of a lot better than they really are, just like a bad OC can make a great unit look like utter trash. There is no doubt in my mind that if we actually hired a legit OC, this offense would be downright lethal with the weapons we have.

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in the long run there are other people out there with a better upside than shula...so when do you pull the trigger?

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6 hours ago, panthers55 said:

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier. We see the same things but come to very different conclusions based on knowledge. For example you say we had the same gameplan for 11 games last year. That is ridiculous and no one who knew even a modicum of how teams prepare for another would say we didnt change our gameplan for each opponent. Hours and hours of film work lead to hours of matching plays to other teams tendencies and looks in certain down and distances. They aren't just pulling plays out of the air. Everything is scripted and yet fluid based on what you are setting up for later, what is working, and where you can exploit mismatches. It is a chess game that is constantly changing. So please stop with the amateurish complaint he doesn't adjust and get more specific by saying his adjustments to outside wide 9 pressure are ineffective. And then tell what he did wrong. Then I will give you some credence and we can have a discussion. Otherwise stop the parroted complaints that have no root in any substance.

In other words, you want a pendantic argument. No. You're not getting it.

Other teams strategies: Put pressure from the edges on Cam. Anyone who should be a quick outlet will be used in max pro. Then you will have 4 defensive players covering 3 offensive players deep down field, and only Olsen needed to be doubled, if he's not in protection. 

You want to argue terminology? Go argue it somewhere else. This thread is about how every team knows to beat us by following the preceding paragraph. 

How many times has this strategy been used against us?

How many times have we tried to make that strategy not work against us?

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6 hours ago, Chimera said:

In other words, you want a pendantic argument. No. You're not getting it.

Other teams strategies: Put pressure from the edges on Cam. Anyone who should be a quick outlet will be used in max pro. Then you will have 4 defensive players covering 3 offensive players deep down field, and only Olsen needed to be doubled, if he's not in protection. 

You want to argue terminology? Go argue it somewhere else. This thread is about how every team knows to beat us by following the preceding paragraph. 

How many times has this strategy been used against us?

How many times have we tried to make that strategy not work against us?

No I don't want a pedantic argument, I want an informed thought out argument which demonstrates you actually know what you are talking about and have an opinion based on knowing what you are looking at. This is supposed to be a football forum where folks talk about football. Instead it has turned into a juvenile bitch session by casual fans who have no clue what they are talking about and just parrot the usual 3 or 4 complaints about our team or coaches and can't back up a single complaint. It doesn't mean that there aren't issues or concerns simply the simplistic logic is annoying. I have sat back for years and simply ignored all the ignorant uninformed comments but not anymore. Put up or shut up. 

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10 hours ago, panthers55 said:

   Put up or shut up. 

Oh God. The huddle collectively believes it's own bullshit a little too much.

Since you mentioned the wide 9, I'm going to scale it back to simply the C gaps. It's so bad that defenses really don't need to go out that wide. Opposing DCs know it will simply become a numbers game and will win that match up every time.

We don't make defenses regret dedicating too many guys to the pass rush; we reward them.

Every additional offensive player in pass protection is one fewer potential quick outlet. It is one fewer person to spread the defense out. It is an additional pass rushers since it is one additional defensive player not in coverage.

Ever wonder why the placeholder sets up exactly 7 years behind the long snapper? At six yards, he's at risk of being blocked by the line. At 8 yards, he's at risk of being tackled by the rusher.

So, tell me, why our offense calls for Cam to be 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage on pass plays? This is directly in an edge rusher's path. At least make them work for a sack. fug. Cam gets the snap from shot gun, takes a 5-7 step drop, and gets sacked for a loss of 10.

Where are the shorter drops? Where are the drag routes? I mean, if a DC is worried about receivers catching a quick pass, he'd probably leave his linebackers back there instead of at the QB. Yay, we used a couple of slants against the Bills. Then we stopped. So did our offense.

Instead of making defenses adapt to our strengths, we line up with 2 TEs and a running back for protection. That leaves two possible receivers on a pass play. 

Sure, it's 8 guys protecting against 8 rushers, but since there's absolutely no short yardage threat, there's incentive to put 3 rushers at each C gap. Or maybe even four on one side. Or hell, even five. It's not like we'd make them regret that choice. The offense calls for Cam to step in their path anyway. Just do it all game long, get the easy win.

 

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