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Inimicus

Lets get it on record: Guns or Human Lives?

Lets get it on record: Guns or Human Lives?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Im willing to significantly restrict access to firearms because Im tired of the mass shootings



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The harsh reality is we are highly unlikely to witness any meaningful change on this issue within our lifetimes.

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4 minutes ago, ARSEN said:

Money

Youve said some things in this forum that I wont soon forgive you for but I cant disagree with you on this.

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Let's say legislation gets passed. 2nd amendment is reformed and laws look a lot like they do in present day Australia regarding gun control. A lot of people are happy and a lot of people are upset. The Federal government would then more than likely create a "buy back" or something of that nature operaration for gun owners to turn them in. Now there are more legal fire arms in this country than people. Hundreds of millions. Do we believe every gun is going to get turned in? I mean you are looking at a potentially extremely dangeous situation involving LEOs and potentially the military going door to door confiscating these weapons. Just food for thought for the potential future. 

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3 minutes ago, USDepartmentOfSavagery said:

Let's say legislation gets passed. 2nd amendment is reformed and laws look a lot like they do in present day Australia regarding gun control. A lot of people are happy and a lot of people are upset. The Federal government would then more than likely create a "buy back" or something of that nature operaration for gun owners to turn them in. Now there are more legal fire arms in this country than people. Hundreds of millions. Do we believe every gun is going to get turned in? I mean you are looking at a potentially extremely dangeous situation involving LEOs and potentially the military going door to door confiscating these weapons. Just food for thought for the potential future. 

I believe there are more law abiding gun owners than not.  And I believe that those good folk will not turn into criminals simply because the law of the land changes.  - Not quite the same but my father could drink when he was 18, so could I, but when the law changed to 21 for beer my old man kicked my ass if I came home drunk at 20. He thought the law was poo but he thought being a law abiding citizen was more important.

 

There will be people who hoard their guns.  Its unavoidable.  Just like there are folks who posses full autos that a great uncle or a grand father brought back from WWII.

 

But how many innocent lives does it take to change an antiquated right?  200? 500? 2500?

Whats the death toll have to be to recognize the 2nd needs repeal/significant change?

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55 minutes ago, Inimicus said:

I believe there are more law abiding gun owners than not.  And I believe that those good folk will not turn into criminals simply because the law of the land changes.  - Not quite the same but my father could drink when he was 18, so could I, but when the law changed to 21 for beer my old man kicked my ass if I came home drunk at 20. He thought the law was poo but he thought being a law abiding citizen was more important.

 

There will be people who hoard their guns.  Its unavoidable.  Just like there are folks who posses full autos that a great uncle or a grand father brought back from WWII.

 

But how many innocent lives does it take to change an antiquated right?  200? 500? 2500?

Whats the death toll have to be to recognize the 2nd needs repeal/significant change?

How much freedom are you willing to give up.  It is a slippery slope.  First let's say it is the fully automatics which imo no one should have. Then next is semi-automatics next would be the pistols. You start tearing apart certain segments of the constitution by say you have only limited right then it makes it a worthless document.  Full repeal of a amendment withstanding. 

 

Btw home made bombs isn't a distraction. If someone wants to do harm on a major scale they will find a way even without guns. 

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12 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

How much freedom are you willing to give up.  It is a slippery slope.  First let's say it is the fully automatics which imo no one should have. Then next is semi-automatics next would be the pistols. You start tearing apart certain segments of the constitution by say you have only limited right then it makes it a worthless document.  Full repeal of a amendment withstanding. 

 

Btw home made bombs isn't a distraction. If someone wants to do harm on a major scale they will find a way even without guns. 

In the Middle East, explosives are more effective than guns BUT they are using old military rockets and etc.  We do not have that in US.

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i think less than a quarter of gun owners would turn in guns if they became illegal. i wouldn't.

but that's also a strawman because nobody is really asking to make all guns illegal.

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26 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

How much freedom are you willing to give up.  It is a slippery slope.  First let's say it is the fully automatics which imo no one should have. Then next is semi-automatics next would be the pistols. You start tearing apart certain segments of the constitution by say you have only limited right then it makes it a worthless document.  Full repeal of a amendment withstanding. 

 

Btw home made bombs isn't a distraction. If someone wants to do harm on a major scale they will find a way even without guns. 

How much freedom?

Lets see...

Id give up:

  • Full & semi auto
  • carbines
  • handguns
  • Calibers over .380 and shot size > 08
  • Ammo capacity > 3 rounds (magazines/wheel guns)
  • cost per round < $2.50
  • Unlicensed ownership of long guns and shotguns (I know that they are technically the same)

I dont expect youll agree with any(many) of those restrictions but Im done claiming that my hobby is so dear and essential to American democracy that we have to accept the kind of tragedies we endured last night.

 

That said barring a change in the laws Im buying a .556 Styer AUG when my year end bonus comes through.

But Id happily give that up to avoid a single innocent being cut down by an idiot asshole with a gun.

 

 

And yes DIY bombs are the exact same distraction as cars.  How many people died at the Boston Marathon? 3...

 

59+ dead in LV...

 

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Beyond home defense, and even that is questionable considering statistics involving home shootings, I just don't understand the desire to own multiple firearms even as a hobby. These are weapons created for the sole purpose of ending life. That isn't a hobby. The hobby excuse is just a cheap line from Americans looking for something to feed their own violent tendencies. 

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13 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Beyond home defense, and even that is questionable considering statistics involving home shootings, I just don't understand the desire to own multiple firearms even as a hobby. These are weapons created for the sole purpose of ending life. That isn't a hobby. The hobby excuse is just a cheap line from Americans looking for something to feed their own violent tendencies. 

Its as much a hobby as building hot rods or archery. 

Yes its a deadly hobby but a hobby none the less.  Trying to paint it as anything else says more about those discounting the hobby than it does the hobbyist.

Shooting is fun. Like a lot of things that people enjoy doing it involves an element of danger but that doesn't make it inherently deadly.

However as dangerous as skiing might be under certain circumstances no one is going to kill 50+ people with a set of skis.  Thus my willingness to give up my toys if the law of the land were changed.

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6 minutes ago, Inimicus said:

Its as much a hobby as building hot rods or archery. 

Yes its a deadly hobby but a hobby none the less.  Trying to paint it as anything else says more about those discounting the hobby than it does as the hobbyist.

Shooting is fun. Like a lot of things that people enjoy doing it involves an element of danger but that doesn't make it inherently deadly.

However as dangerous as skiing might be under certain circumstances no one is going to kill 50+ people with a set of skis.  Thus my willingness to give up my toys if the law of the land were changed.

Ehhhh, comparing it with building hot rods or archery is fairly preposterous.

If you like it, great for you. But it isn't a hobby.

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I don't agree with the misconception that if people enjoy shooting guns that they are inherently violent. 

The majority of guns used in homicides are small capacity handguns. Most of these guns are illegal and were stolen/illegally obtained/serial numbers scratched off. Are those people going to turn in those guns? You can't infringe on a Constitutional right because literally a fraction of a percent of people with legal ownership commit atrocities. As straw man as it is, an argument could be made for automobiles as a tool of death and destruction. They kill more people on a yearly basis in some capacity, negligence or intentional, in America. 

There isn't an easy answer. Personally I'm in favor of stricter reform and regulations. However If people want to commit mass murderous acts, they will find a way. Whether guns are illegal or not. 

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1 minute ago, TheRed said:

Ehhhh, comparing it with building hot rods or archery is fairly preposterous.

If you like it, great for you. But it isn't a hobby 

Its funny that I seem to be the only gun owner on this forum thats willing to admit I buy guns because I like them and not for some trumped up bullshit about "mah feedomz" or "defending 'muricuah from dah gubmint" and you still want to try to call bullshit on me.

Protip: that poo is as bad as the NRA propaganda

Good luck with that...

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1 minute ago, Inimicus said:

Its funny that I seem to be the only gun owner on this forum thats willing to admit I buy guns because I like them and not for some trumped up bullshit about "mah feedomz" or "defending 'muricuah from dah gubmint" and you still want to try to call bullshit on me.

Protip: that poo is as bad as the NRA propaganda

Good luck with that...

I'm not calling bullshit on you. I'm calling bullshit on Americans. This country has had an irrational obsession with firearms for countless decades. It's ingrained in our culture. We didn't get to this point in modern society where we have millions upon millions of firearms throughout the country because it was merely a fun "hobby". That's a lot of f*cking bloodshed over the last hundred plus years for a hobby.

If you want to begin a discussion about how to address this complicated issue moving forward, you first need to get past this lip service about hobbies.

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4 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Reason being severely restricting firearms will just leads to lunitics to start using homemade bombs.  

I'll take a chance with rednecks blowing themselves up 

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