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CPcavedweller

Run Game Woes - Ted Ginn Jr.

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The guys we have are fast twitch, quick guys meaning they will do well in space. Ginn is just a fast guy in a straight line or something that bends slightly. It has been obvious to me, at least subjectively (no data to corroborate my feelings), that Cam and the entire offense operates more efficiently with Ginn. He forces a safety to play over the top of the corner on his side of the field because Ginn will burn any corner in this league 9 times out of 10 on a flat dig route. 

The lack of use of Samuel on go routes tells me one of two things:

  1. There isn't trust that he will beat his man, nor change the coverage of the defense
  2. He isn't as fast as everyone says he is and is simply a guy that we want to utilize as a space eater out in the middle of the field
    1. Space Eater (context) 
      1. A player who when in space, will be able to cover a lot of ground once in space, very quickly, in order to maximize the potential gains from that space
      2. Read: Like a sideline to sideline linebacker eats up space

An example of evidence for my theory would be that the running game in the box has been absolutely putrid. When CMC gets outside the tackle box and toward the numbers, he has space to run. The problem is that teams have been keying on the run, bringing safeties down into the box because we are using Funchess and Benjamin on the outside. Neither of these guys demand help over the top because they aren't burners, leading to the ability for the safety to play down into the box. 

I could be totally wrong on this but that's my theory. Someone like @Saca312 could do some digging and find some Gif's to either fail to disprove or completely disprove my theory (using research diction because that's what this is).

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@CPcavedweller In terms of Samuel not being used much, my take is simply the coaching staff's lack of trust in his ability. Seeing how little snaps he gets, it shows the coaching staff doesn't take him seriously. However, in terms of blocking and efficiency, he's been pretty good from what I've seen.

Samuel is a very quick overall receiver. Not as fast as Ginn, but still very much a deep threat who gets separation quick. He's run good routes from what I've seen, but the coaching staff isn't giving him much chances on the field. Would love to see us use him more.

In terms of Ginn, we really miss his presence. Some people ignore how decent of a route runner/ball-tracker he is. He's very good at intermediate/deep routes and getting open with his other-worldly speed. His drops are egregious, but in reality he still makes a lot of good plays we could use.

Edited by Saca312
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Just now, Saca312 said:

@CPcavedweller In terms of Samuel not being used much, my take is simply the coaching staff's lack of trust in his ability. Seeing how little snaps he gets, it shows the coaching staff doesn't take him seriously. However, in terms of blocking and efficiency, he's been pretty good from what I've seen.

Samuel is a very quick overall receiver. Not as fast as Ginn, but still very much a deep threat who gets separation quick. He's run good routes from what I've seen, but the coaching staff isn't giving him much chances on the field. Would love to see us use him more.

In terms of Ginn, we really miss his presence. Some people ignore how decent of a route runner/ball-tracker he is. He's very good at intermediate/deep routes and getting open with his other-worldly speed. His drops are egregious, but in reality he still makes a lot of good plays we could use.

With all due respect, I understand why Samuel is used the way he is used. I simply would like to see proof, in Gif form and explanation, that we are at more of an advantage to run the ball between the tackles with Ginn on field than without. Samuel, and no other player currently in the league (in my opinion), demands the attention of a safety when used with Cam Newton's arm that Ginn does.

This is obviously why the Eagles were able to play Cover 0 when we were taking deep shots and guys still were unable to get separation down the field.

Also of note, I've yet to see Samuel actually gain any separation from coverage. 

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I don't think its a problem of not having the ability(4.31 40, has like the 6th highest run speed achieved in 2017 at like 22mph, probably on an end round) , it's just he missed a substantial amount of time in the offseason. All of TC + he was sort of injured during the first couple weeks. I think its like you said, coaches not trusting him yet and he has no chemistry with Cam, which is pretty important on deep balls. I'm really hoping he comes into his own in the next couple of weeeks

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9 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Also of note, I've yet to see Samuel actually gain any separation from coverage. 

Right now, no one's really looking at Samuel. He's barely been on the field anyways. Think he had maybe 12 snaps max against the Eagles. Panthers need to re-evaluate themselves.

Here's a few examples I saved from another guy on twitter of Samuel doing good work.

Samuel cuts to the outside with ample room. Refs never called the flag sadly, but if that hold never happened, he would've been home free for the go-ahead touchdown if Cam threw to him.

Finally, another good route as he gets open to the outside and begins to beat his corner. If Cam went for the deep ball here, likely a touchdown when Samuel hits full gear.

 

 

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The issue with Samuel is that he needs to get stronger and break through contact faster. That should happen towards end of the season with more conditioning & live reps. 

He is due for a breakout game hopefully its this Sunday!

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It is possible the loss of Ginn has had a bigger impact than we think, but I doubt it.  The fact of the matter is the Panthers sans Newton have been bad at running the ball for awhile now.

We were 20th in YPC in 2016, but Newton and Fozzy helped boost that.  Stewart averaged a dismal 3.8 YPC.

Stewart averaged a mediocre 4.1 YPC in 2015.

The run game is even worse this year, but it has been on a downward spiral for years now.

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18 hours ago, csx said:

Are teams even needing to stack the box?

It isn't about need to stack the box. It's that there is no need not to stack the box. 

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18 hours ago, csx said:

Are teams even needing to stack the box?

This. A lot of Panther fans seem to be ignoring what is obvious and disturbing - teams are completely shitting down our running game with their front seven alone. 

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you can watch a highlight reel of Samuel in college.  Diversity is his game.  

blowing the top off a D?  Never been his things.  Ron getting up behind a podium and putting what is wrong w/ the O as a void he wants Samuel to fill.....isn't fair IMO. 

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10 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

It isn't about need to stack the box. It's that there is no need not to stack the box. 

Except that teams aren't really stacking the box against us in the first place because we have no running game right now. 

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