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CarolinaSamurai

DG in retrospect

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On 11/11/2017 at 8:21 AM, Jangler said:

How many Hurney picks are still on the team?

If this was dodgeball Hurney would have been picked last. And that’s saying something compared to Gettlemans Physic. 

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38 minutes ago, Snake said:

Jeff Saturday, Delhomme contract, Charles Godfrey contract, David Carr contract, and I could go on... 

I said before the lockout uncertainty.

And wtf Jeff Saturday? He never played for Carolina.

Edit: Davis Carr was cheap.

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4 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Before the lockout uncertainty. 2002-2008.

The lockout was from March 2011 - July 2011.

Are you honestly trying to claim that Hurney shouldn't have 3 years of signings held against him due to "uncertainty?"

If that's the case, he cannot have the signings that he DID hit on prop him up during that same time period.

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1 minute ago, Icege said:

 

The lockout was from March 2011 - July 2011.

Are you honestly trying to claim that Hurney shouldn't have 3 years of signings held against him due to "uncertainty?"

JR wanted us to spend.

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Just now, Car123 said:

JR wanted us to spend.

Also, the lockout ended on July 25th, 2011. Hurney gave DWill his insane contract on July 27th, 2011.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8210503e/article/williams-agrees-to-fiveyear-43m-deal-to-stay-with-panthers

Please provide proof that JR told Hurney that he wanted this signing for that amount of time and money.

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On 11/10/2017 at 6:08 PM, CarolinaSamurai said:

20 draft picks not counting this year.

10 are still on the roster

6 are starters

10 aren't on the team anymore

5 of the 10 not on the team are still in the NFL

We won't know what this year's crop will be but so far one guys on IR and one is on another team. Two are starters, one is rotation, and one backup. 

Pretty interesting if you ask me. I guess he was a middle of the pack drafter. Not this god we thought he was. 

I'd be more curious how his 5th round picks and up did. 6th and 7th rounders are nearly always practice squad players unless you're going FB or K.

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19 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

I'd be more curious how his 5th round picks and up did. 6th and 7th rounders are nearly always practice squad players unless you're going FB or K.

Funny enough you mention that. He only drafted in the 6th/7th rounds 3 times not counting this year. And 2 this year (Armah/Butker). So the list doesn't change much. 

 

 

 

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JR is ultimately at the root of the problem when it comes to years of Panthers mediocrity.

However, anyone thinking Hurney has turned over a new leaf is setting themselves up to be disappointed.  Hard to find people who recreate themselves, much less ones who are over half a century in age.

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:33 PM, CarolinaSamurai said:

Again. You pick a future pick in the first round. A type of pick that's suppose to help you immediately for the future? Sure if you don't need a lot more help in other areas immediately. I would argue a first round safety, DE, or Tackle would have immediately helped our team in the super bowl and years after more than Shaq has. Still a great player no doubt just I don't like the pick.

LB is so important to what Ron wants to do.  Gettleman probably figured this TD clone (Shaq) would take a year to develop in  2015, then replace Davis as the starter in 2016.  Davis, god bless him, has defied the odds and continues to play at a pretty high level into 2017.

Gettleman played the odds with Shaq.  TD's age, injury history, and salary demands should have made replacing him as a starter in 2016 a no-brainer.  But here we are with two very good players.  One is young, fast, and cheap - the other is older, more expensive, and very popular.  I'm afraid In two years, Shaq will be a stud for another team, TD will be retired, and we will need to use a first rounder on an LB.

I think the Butler pick was playing the odds but with a different motivation.  DT is also critical for Ron.  In 2014, a 27 year-old-Suh had 8.5 sacks and 54 tackles.  He turned that into a new contract paying $6.1/$12.6/$19.1/$26.1/$28.1 over the following 5 years.  In 2015, a 26-year-old Short had 11.5 sacks and 55 tackles.  I think Gettleman saw those $26.1 and $28.1 million cap hits that Suh got and knew he had a big problem. Could we pay a DT more than Cam?   Could we tie up that much money in one player?  Short's numbers fell slightly in 2016 (6 sacks, 55 tackles) and we got away with paying him a huge but manageable salary topping out at 18.5m in 2021.  Had he had 10+ sacks again in 2016, he would demand a higher salary than Cam and one that could cripple the team for years.  Do you think Miami is happy?  Next year Miami can pay Suh $26.1 million or take a cap hit of $22 million.  Butler was only a luxury pick in hindsight, but critical at the time.

  

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1 minute ago, grimesgoat said:

LB is so important to what Ron wants to do.  Gettleman probably figured this TD clone (Shaq) would take a year to develop in  2015, then replace Davis as the starter in 2016.  Davis, god bless him, has defied the odds and continues to play at a pretty high level into 2017.

Gettleman played the odds with Shaq.  TD's age, injury history, and salary demands should have made replacing him as a starter in 2016 a no-brainer.  But here we are with two very good players.  One is young, fast, and cheap - the other is older, more expensive, and very popular.  I'm afraid In two years, Shaq will be a stud for another team, TD will be retired, and we will need to use a first rounder on an LB.

I think the Butler pick was playing the odds but with a different motivation.  DT is also critical for Ron.  In 2014, a 27 year-old-Suh had 8.5 sacks and 54 tackles.  He turned that into a new contract paying $6.1/$12.6/$19.1/$26.1/$28.1 over the following 5 years.  In 2015, a 26-year-old Short had 11.5 sacks and 55 tackles.  I think Gettleman saw those $26.1 and $28.1 million cap hits that Suh got and knew he had a big problem. Could we pay a DT more than Cam?   Could we tie up that much money in one player?  Short's numbers fell slightly in 2016 (6 sacks, 55 tackles) and we got away with paying him a huge but manageable salary topping out at 18.5m in 2021.  Had he had 10+ sacks again in 2016, he would demand a higher salary than Cam and one that could cripple the team for years.  Do you think Miami is happy?  Next year Miami can pay Suh $26.1 million or take a cap hit of $22 million.  Butler was only a luxury pick in hindsight, but critical at the time.

  

I think the other thing to remember in 2016 is that I think the team, coaches and GM all thought we were more than good enough that we were willing to take Butler for the future (Star and Short both had big pay days coming up). Problem is we were clearly not good enough and that’s why DG did way more before 2017.

Looking back, that complacency after good years may be why we never seem to replicate the good years before. It was clear that with our 2015 team in tact and KB coming back (he was the star of training camp prior to the ACL, sucks that had to happen), we were willing to roll the dice on Norman. It was a mistake, although we really played like poo in 2016 regardless. 

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12 hours ago, Thanatos said:

I'd be more curious how his 5th round picks and up did. 6th and 7th rounders are nearly always practice squad players unless you're going FB or K.

off of the top of my head:

I know Bene was a 5th. That was a solid pick until the injury. Clearly, he wasn't right after that.

Klein, looking very solid in NO.

Mayo, looking more than capable here.

CAP was in there somewhere. While he has been underwhelming, he is all of a sudden looking like the heir apparent to Stewart after we cut him.  a backup after Hurn-dog empties the coffers on J-stews new 5 year deal.


His UDFAs have been solid too.

White Buffalo.

Philly panned out better than you could have hoped for.

Adarius Glanton was very solid and is now on the 53man in TB.

 

After looking some more up UDFA hits: Melvin White, Robert Lester, Norris, Cox, Duke, Byrd

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