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GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER

what's the goal with the trump/russia stuff?

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im assuming impeachment and removal but after that, what? president mike pence? president paul ryan? that doesn't seem any better. i get the idea of having something big to hang around the necks of republicans for future elections but i dont think it would actually stick to the party. hell lots of republicans are part of the #resistance to varying degrees. others have in some way insulated themselves from trump and you can see it here on this forum. right wingers who agree with nearly everything he has done policy-wise still post as if he might be impeached some day.

anyway what do you want out of this and in what way do you think things improve if trump gets forced out of office?

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i mean the goal is to expose and punish whatever was done. it's not about what might or might not happen for the next 2ish years afterward. we can't just be like 'well you broke the law but i don't want pence to be president so nevermind.' i want to see kleptocrats get what is coming to them in all forms.

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In the end Pence would do more harm to me personally I think than Trump, but rodeo is right. We've got 4 years of as asshole in the White House, whether it's Trump, Pence, or Ryan.

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1 hour ago, rodeo said:

i mean the goal is to expose and punish whatever was done. it's not about what might or might not happen for the next 2ish years afterward. we can't just be like 'well you broke the law but i don't want pence to be president so nevermind.' i want to see kleptocrats get what is coming to them in all forms.

i get that but we've given criminal politicians a pass for less than "i want to keep mike pence out of the presidency". im still left feeling that a lot of the #resistance stuff is purely performative. i think it would be far more valuable to take the energy being used to #resist trump and instead apply it to #resisting his policies (policies he has shared with republicans and democratics). fugin joy reid was on twitter i think yesterday blaming russia for heightening racial tensions in america like putin was the one who killed trayvon martin and tamir rice and michael brown and walter scott et al. im not calling you joy reid and you dont have to answer for her but i mean goddamn what is that helping? 

anyway the policy aims of the trump administration are in line with the republican base so it's hard for me to be excited about the prospect of trump "getting what's coming to him" when functionally the biggest change in my day to day would be seeing less liberals and embarrassed republicans mad online because the president said something uncouth. and what else? like a handful of assholes go to jail? i mean that's fine, send rich assholes to jail, but the presidency is a high stakes game and imo there's serious waste of resistance resources going on here.

it's also hard for me to be excited about a potential impeachment and removal when not only did the gwb administration get a pass for lying to the UN and the world on their way to sparking a war that would kill over a million people and literally give birth to ISIS but their images are also currently being rehabilitated by the #resistance. ghouls like john mccain are heroes in the fight against trump. with trump the #resistance feels more like rules lawyering than anything else. and yeah if you break the rules it's theoretically bad but like is it really the broken rule/law people are mad about or is it because it's trump? i think it's more the latter.

ultimately my fear is that trump is being treated like the final boss in a video game instead of a symptom of something bigger. you and i and a lot of other people would have course like seeing him sent to jail but other than that nice feeling it would give us, it just seems pointless. is there a bigger point? it cant be that the law applies equally to everyone because it hasn't, it doesn't, and it won't even if trump goes to jail. idk i just don't get it. i mostly stay out of russia threads because it all just seems extremely pointless.

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I don't know if I agree with the notion that Pence would be worse or more effective than Trump. The dude has never accomplished a damn thing in his life and certainly won't if we assume that Trump's conviction was caused in part by big senate gains (disregarding the likelihood of that happening since they need 60 votes and good luck with that)

It may not stick long term like the time between bush and trump but in the short term the damage would be an unmitigated disaster for republicans, especially when you have signs of dems trying appeal to the leftist wing to energize the base. Republicans are absolutely aware of this and will do everything to derail it. 

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i guess we'll find out because i definitely don't think he serves the entire 4 year term. i think pence would be a "friendlier face" than trump. not in reality of course but just by perception of the average voter.

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3 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

i guess we'll find out because i definitely don't think he serves the entire 4 year term. i think pence would be a "friendlier face" than trump. not in reality of course but just by perception of the average voter.

Really? Because of the investigation or the "lack of stamina"? I don't see an open path

Right now Pence is staying out of the spotlight so he has the advantage of everyone's attention being directed elsewhere. He'll get eaten alive if he ever has to be the face of the party. Which at that point it would be toxic as fug.

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i buy the speculation that plea agreements with the feds is bad news for people at the top. now im not someone you should listen to on the specifics of the russia stuff as i pointed out that i stay out of these discussions for the most part but it just seems like there's a shitload of smoke going on

idk maybe the #resistance is wearing me down

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I don't know either but to me it boils down to needing 60 votes to toss him. That's just not within the realm of possibility even after midterms if you look at the map and any republican that votes with the dems seals their own fate as well.

The goal of anything from here to November is to stop the bleeding at all costs. If keeping that cloud over his head helps in any measurable way then its worth pursuing.

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3 hours ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

i get that but we've given criminal politicians a pass for less than "i want to keep mike pence out of the presidency". im still left feeling that a lot of the #resistance stuff is purely performative. i think it would be far more valuable to take the energy being used to #resist trump and instead apply it to #resisting his policies (policies he has shared with republicans and democratics). fugin joy reid was on twitter i think yesterday blaming russia for heightening racial tensions in america like putin was the one who killed trayvon martin and tamir rice and michael brown and walter scott et al. im not calling you joy reid and you dont have to answer for her but i mean goddamn what is that helping? 

anyway the policy aims of the trump administration are in line with the republican base so it's hard for me to be excited about the prospect of trump "getting what's coming to him" when functionally the biggest change in my day to day would be seeing less liberals and embarrassed republicans mad online because the president said something uncouth. and what else? like a handful of assholes go to jail? i mean that's fine, send rich assholes to jail, but the presidency is a high stakes game and imo there's serious waste of resistance resources going on here.

it's also hard for me to be excited about a potential impeachment and removal when not only did the gwb administration get a pass for lying to the UN and the world on their way to sparking a war that would kill over a million people and literally give birth to ISIS but their images are also currently being rehabilitated by the #resistance. ghouls like john mccain are heroes in the fight against trump. with trump the #resistance feels more like rules lawyering than anything else. and yeah if you break the rules it's theoretically bad but like is it really the broken rule/law people are mad about or is it because it's trump? i think it's more the latter.

ultimately my fear is that trump is being treated like the final boss in a video game instead of a symptom of something bigger. you and i and a lot of other people would have course like seeing him sent to jail but other than that nice feeling it would give us, it just seems pointless. is there a bigger point? it cant be that the law applies equally to everyone because it hasn't, it doesn't, and it won't even if trump goes to jail. idk i just don't get it. i mostly stay out of russia threads because it all just seems extremely pointless.

russia does make an effort to heighten racial tension, though i don't think it has any measurable impact. racist people who buy into their stuff are already racist. but they did make fake black people twitter accounts to brag about looting and shooting cops which they could then point to on their right winger accounts as examples. same way that most antifa accounts are russian fakes posting absurd poo. most of the russian troll stuff belongs in the white culture thread, it's just stupid poo that gets idiots frothing. they're usually less effective than /pol/ at propaganda.

i completely agree with you about other administrations getting a pass for war crimes and crimes in general, and that's incredibly important, but it's just kind of a "take what you can get when you can get it" thing. i sure as hell want to see the gwb administration locked up. colin powell is another liberal darling like mccain who everyone loves now but sat in front of us lying to get us to war. but there's not a clear opportunity to go after him or anyone else. i'd like there to be, but there isn't. but there's one available for trump right now, like that's really the only reason. the opportunity is there, he's guilty of the crimes, so go after his ass.

i would like to think that after trump is gone he'll be effectively used as an albatross to drape over conservatives and vote them out. i don't trust democrats to actually do it, but that's my hope. after nixon was run out of office, the democrats got literally one term in office before another republican in reagan was elected to continue nixon's policies and cause more destruction than trump could even dream of.

it just comes down to hope i guess maybe. like i hope it helps the state of the country. i hope it stems the rise of fascism. i hope that all these proud boys and alt-right dipshits who are in their teens and twenties see the guy go to jail, see the actual proof that he did illegal poo, and just kinda stop. it's a pipe dream but i see it as kind of confirmation whether america is a decent country or not. war mongers and torturers and criminals of all description in the white house should have been that litmus test many times over, but this is more immediate because this involves an administration directly betraying the country to benefit another country, which is crammed full of the same kind of kleptocrats.

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1 hour ago, SZ James (banned) said:

I don't know either but to me it boils down to needing 60 votes to toss him. That's just not within the realm of possibility even after midterms if you look at the map and any republican that votes with the dems seals their own fate as well.

The goal of anything from here to November is to stop the bleeding at all costs. If keeping that cloud over his head helps in any measurable way then its worth pursuing.

if there is solid concrete evidence release and they don't have the 60 votes, then he actually does become an albatross imo

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5 minutes ago, rodeo said:

if there is solid concrete evidence release and they don't have the 60 votes, then he actually does become an albatross imo

Depending on the severity yeah it's possible. If you're a republican though you wouldn't flip. Neither outcome would be optimal but if they try to weather it there's a small chance they survive, whereas you just dig your own grave if you oust your own leader. Like you said they'll just be back in the next cycle no matter what because this country is dumb as hell.

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5 hours ago, rodeo said:

i mean the goal is to expose and punish whatever was done. it's not about what might or might not happen for the next 2ish years afterward. we can't just be like 'well you broke the law but i don't want pence to be president so nevermind.' i want to see kleptocrats get what is coming to them in all forms.

Once no collusion  is proven Trump will still be your President :shades:

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5 hours ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

i get that but we've given criminal politicians a pass for less than "i want to keep mike pence out of the presidency". im still left feeling that a lot of the #resistance stuff is purely performative. i think it would be far more valuable to take the energy being used to #resist trump and instead apply it to #resisting his policies (policies he has shared with republicans and democratics). fugin joy reid was on twitter i think yesterday blaming russia for heightening racial tensions in america like putin was the one who killed trayvon martin and tamir rice and michael brown and walter scott et al. im not calling you joy reid and you dont have to answer for her but i mean goddamn what is that helping? 

anyway the policy aims of the trump administration are in line with the republican base so it's hard for me to be excited about the prospect of trump "getting what's coming to him" when functionally the biggest change in my day to day would be seeing less liberals and embarrassed republicans mad online because the president said something uncouth. and what else? like a handful of assholes go to jail? i mean that's fine, send rich assholes to jail, but the presidency is a high stakes game and imo there's serious waste of resistance resources going on here.

it's also hard for me to be excited about a potential impeachment and removal when not only did the gwb administration get a pass for lying to the UN and the world on their way to sparking a war that would kill over a million people and literally give birth to ISIS but their images are also currently being rehabilitated by the #resistance. ghouls like john mccain are heroes in the fight against trump. with trump the #resistance feels more like rules lawyering than anything else. and yeah if you break the rules it's theoretically bad but like is it really the broken rule/law people are mad about or is it because it's trump? i think it's more the latter.

ultimately my fear is that trump is being treated like the final boss in a video game instead of a symptom of something bigger. you and i and a lot of other people would have course like seeing him sent to jail but other than that nice feeling it would give us, it just seems pointless. is there a bigger point? it cant be that the law applies equally to everyone because it hasn't, it doesn't, and it won't even if trump goes to jail. idk i just don't get it. i mostly stay out of russia threads because it all just seems extremely pointless.

This is 100% how I feel and why I have not found the energy or the enthusiasm to care about the whole thing beyond following threads on it here.

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