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hepcat

Let's talk about Vernon Butler

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I've seen a lot of people on this board kicking around the notion that Vernon Butler is a bust after two seasons in the NFL. Butler played 225 snaps in 10 games in 2016 and dealt with injuries all season. He played 297 snaps in all 16 games in 2017. That's an average around 33% of the defensive snaps per game. The main reason for that? The presence of Kawaan "the new Big Money" Short. Short played 780 snaps in 2016, and 704 total snaps in 2017. That's an average 75% of the defensive snaps per game in 2017.

Butler turns 24 in June. Short just turned 29 in February. Butler is nearly 5.5 years younger than Short, and is the same age now that Short was his rookie season in 2013, albeit with two seasons of NFL experience. Still on his rookie contract, the Panthers have a solid backup and rotational player in Butler. In 5 years, Butler will be 29 (the same as Short is now), and Short will be 34. There's a strong chance Short won't be on the team anymore in 5 years, since his contract expires in 4 years and is a cap hit of $18m per year, or 9% of the cap space per year until it expires. If Charles "the old Big Money" Johnson is any example, he started declining his age 29 season. 

Butler could still end up being a disruptive player, and the eventual successor to Short, who is surprisingly getting up there in age. I don't get the hate Butler's been getting when he's played limited snaps and playing behind the guy making the 2nd most money on the team. I wouldn't give up on him so fast.

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I'm not worried about him. He has good potential. At the very least he's a nice backup up to have at a critical position. I'm confident his performance would go up with consistent playing time. Can't swell on where we drafted him

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I don't doubt his ability. I doubt his opportunity to be able to showcase that ability. And a first-round draft pick (save QBs) should have an immediate and tangible impact on games, which Butler has not, and will not, have for quite some time.

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This thread will not end well. 

Butler is disruptive, and is a valuable part of our dline. 

Most on here don't pay close enough attention to admit any of it.

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I will admit that some of Gettleman's decisions I once praised, have soured over time and will fully admit I'm not a fan of what he has done with the Giants thus far. 

 

But drafting first round quality defensive lineman is something I will always defend. Championship teams are built around quality defensive lines. 

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10 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I've seen a lot of people on this board kicking around the notion that Vernon Butler is a bust after two seasons in the NFL. Butler played 225 snaps in 10 games in 2016 and dealt with injuries all season. He played 297 snaps in all 16 games in 2017. That's an average around 33% of the defensive snaps per game. The main reason for that? The presence of Kawaan "the new Big Money" Short. Short played 780 snaps in 2016, and 704 total snaps in 2017. That's an average 75% of the defensive snaps per game in 2017.

Butler turns 24 in June. Short just turned 29 in February. Butler is nearly 5.5 years younger than Short, and is the same age now that Short was his rookie season in 2013, albeit with two seasons of NFL experience. Still on his rookie contract, the Panthers have a solid backup and rotational player in Butler. In 5 years, Butler will be 29 (the same as Short is now), and Short will be 34. There's a strong chance Short won't be on the team anymore in 5 years, since his contract expires in 4 years and is a cap hit of $18m per year, or 9% of the cap space per year until it expires. If Charles "the old Big Money" Johnson is any example, he started declining his age 29 season. 

Butler could still end up being a disruptive player, and the eventual successor to Short, who is surprisingly getting up there in age. I don't get the hate Butler's been getting when he's played limited snaps and playing behind the guy making the 2nd most money on the team. I wouldn't give up on him so fast.

It’s funny that no one talks about Short’s contract. We can easily get out after 2019 and save $28.5M in cash (we’d still have Butler in 2020 on 5th year) or 2020 of Short is still playing at a high level at 31. I expect Butler’s snap count to be 40-50% the next two years.

I’m expecting our interior DL to be amazing this year. 

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If he was half ways decent, someone would have made an offer for him when they saw he doesn't play. 

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He isn't a bust. But if you are completely removing the homer goggles, he needs a stellar season in 2018 to even begin to justify wasting a first rounder for him to ride the bench through his affordable rookie contract years. You could say the same thing about Shaq as well. Luxury picks. There's no way around it.

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Let’s...

Vernon Butler is another Dave Gettleman bust that has now put Hurney into a corner and has forced him to pull off a miracle this weekend. 

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6 minutes ago, brandon_87 said:

If he was half ways decent, someone would have made an offer for him when they saw he doesn't play. 

How do you know they haven’t? I don’t want opinions, I want facts stating no one has made an offer for butler.

teams don’t trade away interior lineman unless contract is bloated or they don’t fit scheme.

Edited by TheCasillas

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we've already talked everyones ears off about how this guy was a wasted pick. No need to discuss further if you're a first round pick and you aren't starting you're 3rd year u busted

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2 minutes ago, Panthers8969 said:

we've already talked everyones ears off about how this guy was a wasted pick. No need to discuss further if you're a first round pick and you aren't starting you're 3rd year u busted

How the hell is he supposed to be able to start when he has a top 5 UT ahead of him?

Butler’s great as a rotational piece and helping keep a fresh tough D-line. He’s no bust just because we have a clear top 5 DT playing ahead of him.

Edited by Saca312
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The Eagles had arguably the deepest dline in the league last year, and that helped them win a superbowl. In comparison, the Vikings had stud starters but poor depth, and their starters soon started losing gas.

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21 minutes ago, brandon_87 said:

If he was half ways decent, someone would have made an offer for him when they saw he doesn't play. 

Panthers aren't trading him for anything but a 1st. So if they value having him over the offered we'd never know. He's great depth and good rotation. Not butlers fault he was drafted as insurance and not able to play over a top 5 DT. 

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16 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Let’s...

Vernon Butler is another Dave Gettleman bust that has now put Hurney into a corner and has forced him to pull off a miracle this weekend. 

we’re already passing blame to gettleman if hurney fails and the draft hasn’t even started yet

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