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Matthias

For those who said slavery ended in 1865

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23 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

i'm perfectly fine cutting a few F-35s out of the budget and paying more in taxes for a few years to level the playing field.

I am 100% against that theory, it’s not like I get to choose where those taxes go. Personally, I would not pay a dime to reparations or leveling the playing field. But that’s just me. If I had a choice and I have said this since the moment I started paying taxes. 

80% Science(NASA{wether you like it or not space is our only future because this rock will die. Or more likely be blown to shreds by us}, Medical Discoveries, RnD, Technology)

5% Military(that’s more than enough from every taxable civilian to exceed our current military budget.

5% Education, nuff said.

10% Infrastructure, our transit technology is abysmally out dated. Here’s a sad little fact all you treehuggers out there tend to forget vehicles equate to a singular 40%+!!!! Of carbon emissions. 40+% means there literally cannot be a single bigger output of carbon emissions.  

Persobally, I wouldn’t pay anyone in any of the branches(judicial, legislation, executive) a dime besides per diam and expenses. Serving the country in that capacity was suppose to be a public service, as such, jury duty.

As for the F-35’s or Aegis or what ever military machine, they are predominately built by African American workforce’s. Who make 50-60-70-80 thousand dollars a year(as a singular person, not a household) Who are in a union, with the best possible healthcare. Who have a pension. Who will retire with a million+ dollars in their pocket. 

It sickens me, that there are so many people on here willing to throw them under the bus for their own pathetic gain. I’m looking at you. 

 

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44 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

This topic seems to upset you, as you come with this same demeaning, attacking attitude every time reparations are brought up.

It’s because he only comes on here to post  theories without solutions. Instead of trying to find a better solution. I do not tolerate ignorance. From anyone.

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54 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

I am 100% against that theory, it’s not like I get to choose where those taxes go. Personally, I would not pay a dime to reparations or leveling the playing field. But that’s just me. If I had a choice and I have said this since the moment I started paying taxes. 

80% Science(NASA{wether you like it or not space is our only future because this rock will die. Or more likely be blown to shreds by us}, Medical Discoveries, RnD, Technology)

5% Military(that’s more than enough from every taxable civilian to exceed our current military budget.

5% Education, nuff said.

10% Infrastructure, our transit technology is abysmally out dated. Here’s a sad little fact all you treehuggers out there tend to forget vehicles equate to a singular 40%+!!!! Of carbon emissions. 40+% means there literally cannot be a single bigger output of carbon emissions.  

Persobally, I wouldn’t pay anyone in any of the branches(judicial, legislation, executive) a dime besides per diam and expenses. Serving the country in that capacity was suppose to be a public service, as such, jury duty.

As for the F-35’s or Aegis or what ever military machine, they are predominately built by African American workforce’s. Who make 50-60-70-80 thousand dollars a year(as a singular person, not a household) Who are in a union, with the best possible healthcare. Who have a pension. Who will retire with a million+ dollars in their pocket. 

It sickens me, that there are so many people on here willing to throw them under the bus for their own pathetic gain. I’m looking at you. 

 

First bold: Says a lot to me, but it is what it is.

Second bold is kind of funny to me after reading your first. Also, those who are for reparations have constantly displayed how they are not out for their “pathetic gain.” How can they be out for self when the cause they are fighting for doesn’t benefit them? Majority of the individuals on here for reparations and arguing for reparations are white men. Really what you are saying is black people are out for their “own pathetic gain.” Let’s be real, here.

43 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

It’s because he only comes on here to post  theories without solutions. Instead of trying to find a better solution. I do not tolerate ignorance. From anyone.

I’ve seen solutions from him and many others, but again, this is a topic that has always been pushed to the side and pretty much avoided, so we’re having discussions on a message board to come up with some solutions. 

Judging by your past posts on this topic, it seems you’re totally against it and your mind isn’t changing to that fact. If you’re going to come in here and attack, and try to make one feel foolish for bringing up this subject, then you honestly don’t need to be at the table discussing this. 

Again, not trying to attack you as I’m doing my best to not have my posts come off as attacking.

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Serious kudos for remaining rational and accommodating considering this guy basically walked in and spit in your face by declaring he doesn't give a damn about leveling the playing field.

The irony here is Harbingers routinely rails against men who think this way, like Donald Trump for example, yet here is Harbingers spouting rhetoric that would get a big thumbs up from Donald himself.

Edited by TheRed

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3 hours ago, Harbingers said:

Where is the money going to come from because the government is going to do it. And neither are private corporate entities. I ask you this every time you bring this subject up and you still fail to provide any credible answer. 

Also please show where the median black household only nets 1-2K~ income.

 

It will come from the resources of the government, which taxes could be a part of that.  I've said that before.  Besides, where were all the people asking this question when Bush and Obama announced their bailouts of big banks and businesses? (The same ones that caused the housing bubble crash)  Do you know the government has now spent over 4 trillion plus in those bailouts?  Yet hardly no one ever ask such a question when it comes to giving the wealthy more resources.  I'm talking about a hardcore investment into people who built the richest nation on earth with their free labor.  I'm talking about something that has been owed for hundreds of years.

As for the wealth number, not income, it first came from a study done by economist Ed Wolff....

https://inequality.org/research/racial-wealth-gap-worse-thought/

 

Quote

New York University Professor Edward Wolff, one of the foremost economists studying wealth inequality, looks at the same Federal Reserve dataset that the Pew researchers used in a recent report he published in the National Bureau of Economic Research (paywall). Wolff points out that the Fed includes consumer durables in its net-worth estimates.

Wolff excludes these consumer durables from his net-worth figures because these assets — everything from automobiles and televisions to furniture and household appliances — cannot be readily converted to cash and their resale value typically far understates their consumption value.

According to Wolff’s calculations, the median black family is actually only worth $1,700 when you deduct these durables. In contrast, the median white family holds $116,800 of wealth using the same accounting methods. Black household wealth, Wolff adds, actually fell during the Great Recession from $6,700 to $1,700.

 

Here's a Forbes article talking on how this wealth number could reach zero by 2050.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2017/09/11/median-wealth-of-black-and-latino-families-could-hit-zero-before-the-centurys-end/#316d828c50f6

 

Quote

By 2053, Black households will have a median wealth of zero. It will take Latino households another 20 years to drop to the same level, according to an analysis by non-profits Prosperity Now (formerly CFED) and the Institute for Policy Studies.

 

These are predictions, but if our wealth standing is $1400-$1700, you could pretty much say it's zero now.  For a people who has been here as long, and even longer than most white people in the nation, how is it remotely possible that we have less wealth than those who came into the country just decades ago? (Asian immigrants, Latin immigrants, and even European immigrants who come in today)  We know why that is and we can see the trend is downward for the descendants of slaves in the richest nation on earth.  It's IMHO, inhumane to let black people fall by the wayside.  It would be the biggest condemnation of this country.

Edited by Matthias
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39 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

If you’re going to come in here and attack, and try to make one feel foolish for bringing up this subject, then you honestly don’t need to be at the table discussing this. 

Again, not trying to attack you as I’m doing my best to not have my posts come off as attacking.

I don’t think you are, but we do blatantly butt heads a lot. 

I am not attacking them either. You have seen me use harsher launguage, against those here. Especially Heel/Zin. 

What I see is a hypocracy. I personally as said would not pay reparations. And could give you a plethora of reasons why I wouldn’t. None of which are intrinsically racist.

A big facet, being I tend to start everyone I come across at zero. They can either increase or decrease their affiliation to common sense there for of. 

My issues with Matthais as I have said many times. He continually seeks an alternative to progression. 

You give the majority of people without a substantial amount of money in this country a free 20-30-40 grand. They will waste it(but maybe it will bring them happiness) and the intrinsic issue will not be resolved. That had nothing to do with race, biasism or otherwise. It is simple what happens. 

Cookin’ brought up a very good point, which we already do in the form of scholarship and everyone shot him down. Not even realizing that’s what scholarships are! 

It is ignorance. That’s why I choose to inject simple logic into the conversation at the cost of getting flak from so many of you. 

Matthais has yet to come up with any answer besides he is owed money. When he does I will listen, if it is sound logic than I will put my support behind it. Until then I have no issue raising these points.

Edited by Harbingers

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10 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Serious kudos for remaining rational and accommodating considering this guy basically walked in and spit in your face by declaring he doesn't give a damn about leveling the playing field.

The irony here is Harbingers routinely rails against men who think this way, like Donald Trump for example, yet here is Harbingers spouting rhetoric that would get a big thumbs up from Donald himself.

For the record I always thought you were dumb in panthers talk. I think your even dumber here.

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4 minutes ago, Matthias said:

It's IMHO, inhumane to let black people fall by the wayside. 

Let’s get this little tid bit out of the way first.

Have you ever been to Africa?

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Just now, Harbingers said:

Let’s get this little tid bit out of the way first.

Have you ever been to Africa?

No I've never been, but that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

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6 minutes ago, Matthias said:

I’ve said that before.  Besides, where were all the people asking this question when Bush and Obama announced their bailouts of big banks and businesses?(the same ones that caused the housing bubble crash)

 

Here's a Forbes article

Now to your main points. 

Bush caused a war, to gain oil. Which over stimulated the economy and made people spend way to much money on gas and caused massive stock market depts. they didn’t cause the crash. The war did. Because it’s war dumbass. How bad do you think were gonna crash after this trump bubble. He’s waging war with our allies for shits and giggles.

And yes I read the article before and I put no stock in it because short of a nuclear war, it has literally zero chance of being real. 

 

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Very disturbing video. The Donald/Karston segment was particularly unsettling. 

  • Pie 1

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5 minutes ago, Matthias said:

No I've never been, but that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

It has everything to do. You are willing to throw away your “brethren” in Africa, who have been ravaged by wars, death squads, sycophants, tribalism, and conditions. Over you getting 20-40 grand. That’s my point.

Edited by Harbingers

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If reparations were to be paid out would the direct descendants of slave owners be responsible for them or the US government? Would a nationwide tax be applied to all citizens or just white ones? It feels like estimating the sheer range of this is incalculable. How do we go about balancing the scales? For instance lets assume that the family that owns Walmart (The Waltons) were found to have been direct descendants of slave owners. Let's say that there was proof that there were 14 living descendants of those slaves today and there was a case made that their ancestor's work indirectly or directly resulted in the Walton's current empire.  Should the Walton's majority share be split up equally among the descendants? Maybe it's just out of my range of thinking but trying to get a handle on this is not easy.

Edited by Dex

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23 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Now to your main points. 

Bush caused a war, to gain oil. Which over stimulated the economy and made people spend way to much money on gas and caused massive stock market depts. they didn’t cause the crash. The war did. Because it’s war dumbass. How bad do you think were gonna crash after this trump bubble. He’s waging war with our allies for shits and giggles.

And yes I read the article before and I put no stock in it because short of a nuclear war, it has literally zero chance of being real. 

 

I'm not an expert concerning the bubble crash, but I've heard it majorly had to deal with banks giving out a bunch of home loans to those who couldn't keep up with the payments.  You had a mass amount of foreclosures as a result.  Yet really besides all that, the money Bush and Obama gave out, could have been given to the people instead.  We are talking 4 trillion plus over a number of years, and still that number is going higher.  However Obama, our first "black" president, said those banks were too big to fail.  Ultimately he's now sipping on champagne with the big boys on Wall Street.

Ultimately what I'm getting at with that is, you probably didn't ask that question concerning where the money was going to come from to do the bailouts.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

It has everything to do. You are willing to throw away your “brethren” in Africa, who have been ravaged by wars, death squads, sycophants, tribalism, and conditions. Over you getting 20-40 grand. That’s my point.

 

I'm going to let Africa (a continent with over 50 separate countries and many people groups) handle it's own business.  I'm talking about the good ol' US of A and it's history.

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7 minutes ago, Dex said:

If reparations were to be paid out would the direct descendants of slave owners be responsible for them or the US government? Would a nationwide tax be applied to all citizens or just white ones? It feels like estimating the sheer range of this is incalculable. How do we go about balancing the scales? For instance lets assume that the family that owns Walmart (The Waltons) were found to have been direct descendants of slave owners. Let's say that there was proof that there were 14 living descendants of those slaves today and there was a case made that their ancestor's work indirectly or directly resulted in the Walton's current empire.  Should the Walton's majority share be split up equally among the descendants? Maybe it's just out of my range of thinking but trying to get a handle on this is not easy.

When it comes to reparations, it would be the responsibility of the US government to pay it.  The nation itself was made wealthy due to slavery.  Also, the US played a major role in keeping black people out of building wealth with the Jim Crow period.  We also know discrimination happened everywhere.  Redlining invented the ghettos in the north and elsewhere.  The government and the nation itself played a major role in the suffering and handicapping of black Americans.

  • Pie 2

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