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charlottenian

So I guess all 155 that Israel killed today were all "terrorists"

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Great to see the Chrismas Spirit in action!

War is what it is, horrible, unimaginable, unforgiving, and necessary for those involved.

Oh sorry Merry Christmas.

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I'd like to preface my comment by saying that this is not meant as a hateful comment. I'm just trying to look at the issues with an open mind.

I think it should be noted that prior to 1948, there were no wars between Jews and Muslims. In fact, it was the Christians who terrorized the Jews for centuries, beginning with the Crusades, the Inquisition, and finally the Holocaust. I guess it is ironic that the Jews now have the Christians' unconditional support. They are now completely dominating the American media and foreign policy thanks to their financial might and lobbying by AIPAC. Whether you agree with them, or not, the relationship they have with the U.S. is truly "special" and they have done everything to milk the holocaust for all it's worth. After all, you can't only blame Hitler for those murders, the Europeans and Americans were well aware of Hitler's policies and jews were discriminated against throughout the West.

That said, it is true that, many times, children who are abused become the abusers when they become adults. I think same is true with israel. All they have learned is that they don't want another holocaust, but they have deprived another innocent people in the process, kicking them out of their lands and depriving them of human dignity. All you have to do is read some of the posts in which many people do not even consider Palestinians worthy of being considered humans, carelessly dismissing their loss of life as "collateral damage" even when women and children are in question.

Regardless of your opinion of the palestinian leadership, if you study history you will find that palestinians and jews lived in peace for centuries, and it was Israel that launched the war of 1948 to create the Jewish state.

What happened in the Holocaust was horrible, but two wrongs don't make a right. What's happened in the palestinian territories is nothing short of ethnic cleansing. Entire nation being deprived of their homeland simply because of their race and religion. The palestinian fight for freedom and justice is nothing less than a civil rights issue, similar to that in South Africa and the United States during the 20th century. Violence is wrong on both sides but all you have to look at is the casualties to realize that the Israelis have killed far more palestinians in their effort to crush the rebellion against an occupying force. Most of those casualties are civilians.

On the flip side, while the western media and politicians have often condemned the palestinians for their violent actions, same cannot be said for Israeli crimes. How long will the hipocrisy last? How long before Israelis are held accountable for their crimes? Why is it that Israel can do no wrong? Why is it that they are not held accountable even for taking american lives (remember Rachel Corrie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie)? I hope someone can answer these questions without quoting what they heard on CNN but using their own brains and hearts.

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It is really quite easy to understand.

Many americans subscribe to the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" line of reasoning, and americans see much of the ME as their enemies, right or wrong.

Americans see every act of terrorism, and invariably the perp will cite the plight of the palestinians (whether they are palestinian or not) as a reason for the act, usually followed by support for Israel as another reason.

Does that help?

The suffering of the people in Gaza falls on deaf ears, as long as we have a boogeyman.

Nazis, Reds, Muslims, whatever, we seem to need a boogeyman.

I spoke with my colleague, a palestinian, just the other day. She said the people there, whether Jewish or Muslim, actually get along quite well. The issue, in her opinion, is the leadership on both sides. Hardliners pandering to the lowest common denominator, to the detriment of the people. Like a broken record, it repeats itself.

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I'd like to preface my comment by saying that this is not meant as a hateful comment. I'm just trying to look at the issues with an open mind.

I think it should be noted that prior to 1948, there were no wars between Jews and Muslims. In fact, it was the Christians who terrorized the Jews for centuries, beginning with the Crusades, the Inquisition, and finally the Holocaust. I guess it is ironic that the Jews now have the Christians' unconditional support. They are now completely dominating the American media and foreign policy thanks to their financial might and lobbying by AIPAC. Whether you agree with them, or not, the relationship they have with the U.S. is truly "special" and they have done everything to milk the holocaust for all it's worth. After all, you can't only blame Hitler for those murders, the Europeans and Americans were well aware of Hitler's policies and jews were discriminated against throughout the West.

That said, it is true that, many times, children who are abused become the abusers when they become adults. I think same is true with israel. All they have learned is that they don't want another holocaust, but they have deprived another innocent people in the process, kicking them out of their lands and depriving them of human dignity. All you have to do is read some of the posts in which many people do not even consider Palestinians worthy of being considered humans, carelessly dismissing their loss of life as "collateral damage" even when women and children are in question.

Regardless of your opinion of the palestinian leadership, if you study history you will find that palestinians and jews lived in peace for centuries, and it was Israel that launched the war of 1948 to create the Jewish state.

What happened in the Holocaust was horrible, but two wrongs don't make a right. What's happened in the palestinian territories is nothing short of ethnic cleansing. Entire nation being deprived of their homeland simply because of their race and religion. The palestinian fight for freedom and justice is nothing less than a civil rights issue, similar to that in South Africa and the United States during the 20th century. Violence is wrong on both sides but all you have to look at is the casualties to realize that the Israelis have killed far more palestinians in their effort to crush the rebellion against an occupying force. Most of those casualties are civilians.

On the flip side, while the western media and politicians have often condemned the palestinians for their violent actions, same cannot be said for Israeli crimes. How long will the hipocrisy last? How long before Israelis are held accountable for their crimes? Why is it that Israel can do no wrong? Why is it that they are not held accountable even for taking american lives (remember Rachel Corrie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie)? I hope someone can answer these questions without quoting what they heard on CNN but using their own brains and hearts.

your words truly brought a tear to my eye.... I wish I was as eloquent as you

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That was a good read. But we must continue to lay facts on to this Tetris game of right and wrong and who threw the first rock.

On May 14, 1948, the day before the end of the British Mandate, the Jewish Agency proclaimed independence, naming the country Israel. The following day five Arab countries – Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq –invaded Israel, launching the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Morocco, Sudan, Yemen and Saudi Arabia also sent troops to assist the invaders. After a year of fighting, a ceasefire was declared and temporary borders, known as the Green Line, were established. Jordan annexed what became known as the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and Egypt took control of the Gaza Strip.

Even after the UN(newly minted UN) came up with the plan of Israel's state, the Arab League of Nations didn't like it.

To this day Syria and Iran do not recognize Israel. In what state they would I don't know.

I think both sides are sold short in their pursuit of peace. It can be done. Getting there is another ballgame.

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Palestinians are also Philistines...From an historical perspective, the Philistines were a thorn in the side of the Jewish nation a thousand years before 1948...And a thousand years before that.

and CHRISTIANS were NOT responsible for the holocaust...Just because HITLER may have claimed that, he was NOT a Christian by any stretch. The Crusades more than anything were a push back against the advance of Islam...Yes, Islam is an expansive and repressive religion. It was then and is now. I don't think you will find a Muslim nation on this planet that isn't ruled tyrannicaly by it's doctrine.

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That was a good read. But we must continue to lay facts on to this Tetris game of right and wrong and who threw the first rock.

On May 14, 1948, the day before the end of the British Mandate, the Jewish Agency proclaimed independence, naming the country Israel. The following day five Arab countries – Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq –invaded Israel, launching the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Morocco, Sudan, Yemen and Saudi Arabia also sent troops to assist the invaders. After a year of fighting, a ceasefire was declared and temporary borders, known as the Green Line, were established. Jordan annexed what became known as the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and Egypt took control of the Gaza Strip.

Even after the UN(newly minted UN) came up with the plan of Israel's state, the Arab League of Nations didn't like it.

To this day Syria and Iran do not recognize Israel. In what state they would I don't know.

I think both sides are sold short in their pursuit of peace. It can be done. Getting there is another ballgame.

And as we all will readily acknowledge, if the UN gave New Mexico to the American Indians, we would all be right on board with that!

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And as we all will readily acknowledge, if the UN gave New Mexico to the American Indians, we would all be right on board with that!

Being on board or not, responding with violence doesn't seem to work.

And as far as New Mexico. No problemes hermano.

So CWG, tell me the good steps Hamas has taken to make this work or get better?

Don't go surfing for it. Tell me from what you know.

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ANSWER THE QUESTION! DONT WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION ANSWER THE QUESTION!

I have no idea. Hamas does not recognize Israeli sovereignty AFAIK, so to "make things work" seems to be a bit counterproductive to their cause, doesn't it?

Don't try and make me sound like some kind of Hamas homeboy. All I have been saying here is that there are legitimate issues and problems, not "good guys" and "bad guys" crap. Marginalizing the Palestinians and making the Israelis out as somehow blameless or better than their enemies is stupid and definitely not going to help us understand and deal with the real issues there.

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ANSWER THE QUESTION! DONT WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION ANSWER THE QUESTION!

I have no idea. Hamas does not recognize Israeli sovereignty AFAIK, so to "make things work" seems to be a bit counterproductive to their cause, doesn't it?

Don't try and make me sound like some kind of Hamas homeboy. All I have been saying here is that there are legitimate issues and problems, not "good guys" and "bad guys" crap. Marginalizing the Palestinians and making the Israelis out as somehow blameless or better than their enemies is stupid and definitely not going to help us understand and deal with the real issues there.

Why would Israel or anybody try and understand, or bargain with, a terrorist organization? Do you honestly believe any settlement can be brokered with these people? In what way did Yasser ever make you believe it possible?

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