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Another nail in the coffin of the silly "we can get kids to stop having sex" movement


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#31 Matt Foley

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:56 PM

The so called educated elite are some of the biggest jackasses around.


Ding ding ding

#32 cookinwithgas

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 10:01 PM

So during the 70's, STD's, uplanned and teenage pregancies were at an all time high.
Not much sex ed going on at the time.

Isn't this classic cause and effect? You have UNPROTECTED sex, the above are what CAN happen. May not, but CAN.
Get the proper protection, you STILL CAN get all the above. Not as likely, but likely.
Abstain from sex, pretty good shot you won't get the above. Pretty simple.
I think the emphasis is on the wrong directive. Teach both paths.
That way the child/teen is informed. And when they want to crank out kids like it's making cookies, knock yourself out.


BTW- Isn't the abstain angle similar to the threat of Global Warming?
There are tangible and not so tangible things on that so(mocking concerned voice) we all need to do our part and "abstain" from using fossil fuels or abstain from styrofoam cups etc.
So lets teach kids NOT to use a car and ride mass transit because he will single handlely alter the course of the Earth due to abstaining from building a carbon footprint.
But not for sex. Roll the dice kid.
The so called educated elite are some of the biggest jackasses around.


Wow, people say I reach....

Teens have a limited sense of repercussions as compared to self-control. The best you can do is make it as easy as possible to make sure they have as much information (yes, including the benefits of abstention) and access to birth and STD control (yes that includes condoms at school; no parental consent needed as thats just another potential barrier to reducing pregnancies and STDs) as possible. I would hope my daughter would feel OK with telling me if she wanted to go on the pill or whatever, but she might not feel comfortable with that, and if I'm not going to know that she is having sex, I'd rather her have access to guilt free protection than just take a chance so as not to anger Dad.

#33 Mr. Scot

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:20 AM

Wow, people say I reach....

Teens have a limited sense of repercussions as compared to self-control. The best you can do is make it as easy as possible to make sure they have as much information (yes, including the benefits of abstention) and access to birth and STD control (yes that includes condoms at school; no parental consent needed as thats just another potential barrier to reducing pregnancies and STDs) as possible. I would hope my daughter would feel OK with telling me if she wanted to go on the pill or whatever, but she might not feel comfortable with that, and if I'm not going to know that she is having sex, I'd rather her have access to guilt free protection than just take a chance so as not to anger Dad.

That's not a decision you can make for every other parent though. A lot of parents don't want their kids having access to birth control without their knowledge. And regardless of what you think of that mindset, to undermine their authority in that matter is completely and utterly wrong.

And by the way, the defeatist notion that every single teenager out there is going to have sex and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it is just as silly as pretending that none of them are interested.

#34 Delhommey

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:16 AM

It's pretty simple really. Teach the honest truth, allow safe and easy access to condoms and birth control with an opt out program if the parents wish.

Those that opt out can take their children to quitely get abortions like all the good, upstanding families did in my high school.

#35 cookinwithgas

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:55 AM

Really.

And I know a lot of parents don't want their kids to have access to birth control....I also remember my parents not telling me I needed to wear a seat belt. Ever. The government underminded them, and now it's a non-event.

The only difference here is that sex is a much more emotional topic, filled with feelings of guilt and religious claptrap. It's more of a reflection of parental denial that their kids are growing up than anything else.

You may not agree, but kids go to school for more than just learning facts. They are introduced to society, laws, and rules. Parents can tell you about sex and relationships, but most of a kids learning about those things take place at school where they are put into daily situations with the opposite (or the same, this is 2008 after all) sex. In order to keep their kids somehow shielded from this, lots of parents homeschool their own values into their kids - and just like in a normal school, sometimes they come out fine, sometimes they come out disfunctional.

My take on it is that if you love your child and truly care about their happiness, and you trust them and have raised them right, then you owe it to them to give them the most honest and straightforward information you can, instead of working to protect your own self interests.

#36 cookinwithgas

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:56 AM

Ding ding ding


Fries are done?

#37 Mr. Scot

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:40 PM

In order to keep their kids somehow shielded from this, lots of parents homeschool their own values into their kids - and just like in a normal school, sometimes they come out fine, sometimes they come out disfunctional.

My take on it is that if you love your child and truly care about their happiness, and you trust them and have raised them right, then you owe it to them to give them the most honest and straightforward information you can, instead of working to protect your own self interests.

And you think religious parents are incapable of doing this?

And you're dead wrong on homeschooling. Parents don't homeschool their kids to shield them from social experiences or just to ensure that they aren't having sex. Parents homeschool because they're thoroughly dissatisfied with the school system. Sometimes it's moral stance; other times it's safety issues; others, it's quality of education provided. In most cases, you'll find it's a combination of those things.

Given the way schools are these days, there's evidence to back them up.

#38 cookinwithgas

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:56 PM

You tell me I'm "dead wrong", then site "moral stance" as a reason for homeschooling.

I'm not saying anyone is incapable of anything. But the odds are that if you are homeschooled for religious reasons, it's doubtful your parents will provide condoms and STD information discreetly and anonymously.

#39 pstall

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:03 PM

So, is the "correct" outcome a teen NOT getting pregnant or getting a disease or is it how they were taught all the info related to sex ed/protection/responsibility.

#40 Mr. Scot

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:05 PM

You tell me I'm "dead wrong", then site "moral stance" as a reason for homeschooling.

I'm not saying anyone is incapable of anything. But the odds are that if you are homeschooled for religious reasons, it's doubtful your parents will provide condoms and STD information discreetly and anonymously.

And you think that's the only way to stop teen pregnancy?

Believe it or not, a lot of parents do successfully keep their kids away from underage sex, pregnancy and STDs without the use of condoms.

#41 cookinwithgas

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:16 PM

I believe it. I seem to have done it, though my daughter is still a HS senior....

But the statistics show that the more honest and open information that a teen gets, the less likely they are to get an STD or pregnant. The linked article at the top of the thread shows that "promises" and a lack of information make teens more at risk.

You are defending individuals; I am merely citing statistics and the common sense behind them. That is the measurable yardstick of success in a society wide issue like this.

#42 Mr. Scot

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:23 PM

I believe it. I seem to have done it, though my daughter is still a HS senior....

But the statistics show that the more honest and open information that a teen gets, the less likely they are to get an STD or pregnant. The linked article at the top of the thread shows that "promises" and a lack of information make teens more at risk.

You are defending individuals; I am merely citing statistics and the common sense behind them. That is the measurable yardstick of success in a society wide issue like this.

Statistics and studies don't raise kids. Neither does the government. Parents do that. I'd add that there's not enough info about this study to know how solid it was (there were accusations it was flawed in the article) but there have been numerous others that have stated sex ed programs that stress abstinence as the primary birth control method are more successful (even outside of a values framework).

Your logic suggests that religious parents can't be open and honest about sex. I know quite a few religious parents very well, and pretty much all of them are more than willing to talk openly to their kids about sex. They just also happen to do it within the moral framework of their religious beliefs.

#43 Niner National

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:36 PM

And you think that's the only way to stop teen pregnancy?

Believe it or not, a lot of parents do successfully keep their kids away from underage sex, pregnancy and STDs without the use of condoms.

a lot is a subjective term. More teenagers have sex these days than not.

#44 cookinwithgas

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:46 PM

This is not the first study done to show the obvious fact that kids will, in general, have sex despite their parents wanting them not to.

It's also not the first one to show that the more information that teens have the better the chances are of them not having sex, or at least protecting themselves better.

Mr. Scot, I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that not everyone is as great a parent as you, but we all have to bear the costs of this issue. Some parents are actually NOT good at talking about sex with their kids, religious or not. Facts are, teens usually don't respond well to lecturing, and being told not to do something "because it's wrong" is, overall, not a great stategery for a 16 year old.

To me, if God didn't want us to have sex before marriage, he would have engineered us to drop our testicles upon the scent of cut wedding cake.

#45 Delhommey

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 02:05 PM

Like I said, if the parents want to opt out, have at it.

All I'm totally against is the silly "abstinence only" programs.


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