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Teacher calls for police because student won't say pledge

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[URL]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/23/AR2010022303889.html[/URL]

The mother of a 13-year-old Montgomery County middle school student is demanding an apology from a teacher who had school police escort the youngster from a classroom for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1943 that students cannot be forced to salute the flag. Maryland law explicitly allows any student or teacher to be excused from participating in the pledge, according to the ACLU.

The incident began on a Wednesday in late January, when the girl did not stand for the pledge. Her teacher yelled at her, demanded that she stand and then sent her to the office for her defiance, Quereshi said. The school system confirmed the sequence of events.

The next morning, the girl again refused to stand for the pledge. This time, the teacher called two school police officers to the classroom to escort the girl to the office.

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I get it. It's illegal and she shouldn't be forced to, the teacher is insane, etc.

But seriously what a brat.

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good. all the greatest people in history were brats. this country was founded by brats.

she should be applauded. the pledge of allegiance is authoritarian propaganda that should be eliminated from schools altogether. it flies in the face of what the country was founded on.


it was written in 1892 by a socialist named Fancis Bellamy. this is the Bellamy Salute that accompanied it.
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Pledge_salue.jpg[/IMG]
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Agree with the girl and with rodeo. Saying the pledge is un-american. No one should pledge allegiance to any republic. We are a nation of dissenters.

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............I'm always of mixed feelings about this. I mean, obviously the girl shouldn't have been steamrolled out of the classroom, but authoritarian propaganda? A nation of dissenters? Eh, I don't know.

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Proud graduate of Edward Bellamy Middle School. He was Francis' brother and wrote some cool books.

The Pledge was created out of a contest dreamed up by a company wanting to sell more flags to schools. In the 50's this little piece of advertising was hijacked by the religious right in order to get everyone on board with the idea that the Christian God was in charge against the Russkies.

Yet you would think that it was some holy poem invented by Thomas Jefferson himself.
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That being said I have no doubt that this girl was just wanting to stir the pot and the teacher needed to restore discipline to the classroom.

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[quote name='cookinwithgas']That being said I have no doubt that this girl was just wanting to stir the pot and the teacher needed to restore discipline to the classroom.[/QUOTE]

Agree. I respect her right not to say the pledge. However, I am certain she was not voicing her policitcal position. She was being a pain in the ass and trying to cause trouble.

I am certain that they cannot force her to salute or say the pledge. Not sure if the whole standing thing is legit.

Can a teacher force a child to stand? I would think they could.

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[quote name='cookinwithgas']That being said I have no doubt that this girl was just wanting to stir the pot and the teacher needed to restore discipline to the classroom.[/QUOTE]

their school handbook specifically prevents students from being embarrassed if they choose not to participate in any pledge, anthem, or patriotic exercise.

how are students to be expected to follow rules when the teachers don't? you can't restore discipline by breaking the law.

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Wow. The teacher has no right to make the kid say the pledge nor stand for the pledge.

This is coming from a guy who thinks forcing a haircut is a grey area.

Fire the teacher.

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this is why I say you don't even teach evolution or creationism in school. Leave any slippery slope topic to the parents or guardians to teach.
Be as apolitical as possible in school at least until high school and just simply focus on the basics that will get a kid an education.
Look at all the issues in the country that stem from those borderline iffy topics and then all the focus ends up like the article.
You want to do the pledge. Do it at home. Want to pray? Do it at home. Want to wear a tshirt protesting something? Wear it at home.
Go to school to learn and interact with other people and when the final bell rings, go get your controversy on..

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[quote name='pstall']Want to pray? Do it at home. [/QUOTE]

If someone wants to pray, why should they have to do it at home?

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[quote name='pstall']this is why I say you don't even teach evolution or creationism in school. Leave any slippery slope topic to the parents or guardians to teach.
[/QUOTE]

Ridiculous. What if math goes against someones religion, I guess we shouldn't teach that either cause facts could offend someone.

And lets not teach about the Holocaust cause there are some people that believe it never happened, it could offend them.

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I'm all for praying at school. But I understand the constitution.
As for math going against religion not sure where or how but again, if you are going to teach one thing, you must teach or present another to allow true critical thinking.
Otherwise you are loading the facts that you want.

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That is utterly ridiculous. If she didn't want to participate in the pledge, then she should have been allowed to sit there and mind her own business.

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[quote name='Misty_Mountain_Hop']That is utterly ridiculous. If she didn't want to participate in the pledge, then she should have been allowed to sit there and mind her own business.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

I fully respect her right not to salute or say the pledge.

However, should the teacher be allowed to make the kid stand? That is not participating or acknowledging the pledge.

I am just asking because what if the teacher requested a kid to stand for something else....would they have the right to refuse?

Thoughts?

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[quote name='pstall']I'm all for praying at school. But I understand the constitution.
As for math going against religion not sure where or how but again, if you are going to teach one thing, you must teach or present another to allow true critical thinking.
Otherwise you are loading the facts that you want.[/QUOTE]

Please present to me scientific evidence that supports creationism.

Creationism is NOT science. You can teach it in a philosophy class all you want.

This is a rather short video that does a decent job of explaining that.

[url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/intelligent-design-trial.html[/url]

If in school they brought up every crackpot idea then real learning would never happen.

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[quote name='MadHatter']Agree.

I fully respect her right not to salute or say the pledge.

However, should the teacher be allowed to make the kid stand? That is not participating or acknowledging the pledge.

I am just asking because what if the teacher requested a kid to stand for something else....would they have the right to refuse?

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Standing during the pledge is part of the pledge itself. Therefore she should not have to stand.

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[quote name='pstall']I'm all for praying at school. But I understand the constitution.
As for math going against religion not sure where or how but again, if you are going to teach one thing, you must teach or present another to allow true critical thinking.
Otherwise you are loading the facts that you want.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean you understand the constitution? The constitution does not say you aren't allowed to pray at school.

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[quote name='Cat']Please present to me scientific evidence that supports creationism.

Creationism is NOT science. You can teach it in a philosophy class all you want.

This is a rather short video that does a decent job of explaining that.

[url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/intelligent-design-trial.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Present to me scientific evidence it didn't. So who is the authority that says creationsim is philsophy and evolution is just science?
This is my point.
This isn't a matter of which is right or wrong but where it leads instead of getting a kid prepared for the real world.
Tackle this at least in high school if need be. Pretty ironic the root word of creationism isn't science to some.
But stick to the point here. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong. It's what is benefiting the kid in an overall fashion.

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[quote name='Ccat']What do you mean you understand the constitution? The constitution does not say you aren't allowed to pray at school.[/QUOTE]

church and state. Gotta keep em separated. Ideally, I would like prayer in school. But I see where the founders are coming from of what happens when you mix certain elements together.
Which is the thrust of my other comments which are gonna get parsed to the inth degree and miss where I'm getting at.

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[quote name='MadHatter']Agree.

However, should the teacher be allowed to make the kid stand?

I am just asking because what if the teacher requested a kid to stand for something else....would they have the right to refuse?

[/QUOTE]

No for the pledge

No for the other question (within reason)

also the teacher called the cops. That is getting ridiculous as well.

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[quote name='pstall']Present to me scientific evidence it didn't. So who is the authority that says creationsim is philsophy and evolution is just science?
This is my point.
This isn't a matter of which is right or wrong but where it leads instead of getting a kid prepared for the real world.
Tackle this at least in high school if need be. Pretty ironic the root word of creationism isn't science to some.
But stick to the point here. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong. It's what is benefiting the kid in an overall fashion.[/QUOTE]

Thats the point, there is NO EVIDENCE! Therefore it isn't science!!!!!

Learning scientific facts is beneficial to the kid. Teaching biology without teaching evolution is LAME.

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Something just doesn't add up here. Was the pledge toward the flag or a picture of obama hanging from the chalkboard?

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[quote name='Cat']Thats the point, there is NO EVIDENCE! Therefore it isn't science!!!!!

Learning scientific facts is beneficial to the kid. Teaching biology without teaching evolution is LAME.[/QUOTE]

One could argue that most of the evolution that is relevant to high school biology is speculative.

The bits and pieces that was taught in my biology class wasn't backed up by [I]anything[/I]. But that was 10 years ago so maybe things have changed.

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