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Pat Yasinskas the voice of reason??


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#16 Gman was right

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:31 PM

Pat Y has ALWAYS been the voice of reason. Some people here just hate him because he tells it like it is. I think someone even told me that he hated the panthers just because they released Kris Jenkins. LMAO!!

#17 mountainpantherfan

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:50 PM

I keep hearing how Richardson is worried about a labor lockout. I have to ask what doest his have to do with purging the roster? And why is Richardon seemingly mountiing a one man show with regards to this issue? Mr. Richardson you owe the fans a winner not some self serving effort to stand up against this whole labor thing.


He isn't mounting a one man show. It just seems that way in Carolina. The Jets dumped a lot of contracts this offseason. The Chargers cut a couple of bad contracts that they wouldn't have in a normal capped year. And the Redskins actually cut more players than the Panthers have. Also, look around the league at the teams that usually are big spenders in FA. Dallas and Washington haven't signed one big free agent. Really, outside of the bottom headers, and at this point I would include Chicago in that group, no one is spending a lot of money.

When you look at the situation, really all parties are correct in some way or another. JR is taking advantage of the uncapped year, he is probably dumping some contracts because of the possible lockout year, the team isn't better than it was last year, the team can become better with younger players stepping up. And I agree with Yas that the whole picture isn't able to be seen yet. We still don't know what other FA will be signed and what will happen with the draft.

I said this in another thread and I will say it again. Once we find out what is going to happen to Hurney, which a decission should be made soon, then we will have a much better understanding of what all is going on and what the plan is going to be.

#18 Woodie

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 12:38 AM

Hoover made less than a Mill a year and only had one year left on his contract. Then again I'm a little biased because he's our hometown boy.

I believe Hoover's back problems played a role in his release, along with the fact that he has been getting nicked up more and more the last couple of years. I think they feel he is breaking down and just don't want to spend a million on a guy they aren't confident will even be able to play much this year.

#19 Cyberjag

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:54 AM

If Peppers was still in Carolina, everyone on this board and everywhere else would be talking about how we were making big improvements across the board. Really, his position (and arguably Lewis') are the only two where we don't look to be upgrading.
  • Hoover was old and experienced, but Fiametta is younger and faster and has a year of NFL coaching under his belt.
  • Johnson rushes the passer better than Brayton, and has always played the run well.
  • Leonard collapses the pocket better than Kemo, and showed signs of being as good at commanding a double-team in his short stint last season. He's improved every year he's been in the league.
  • Moose is ancient by NFL standards, and we had a big need there before the purge.
  • Jake may come back and play well again like Warner did, but Moore needed to be given the keys.
  • Diggs was old and serviceable, but Connor has all the speed, all the instincts, and can still get better.
  • We tried the deep kickoff thing, now it looks like we're going to try good coverage instead. That worked when Kasay was younger, he's never consistently kicked them out of the end zone.
The ONLY position where we are genuinely worse off than last year at this time is at RDE, and we have Everette Brown ready to show us if he can generate pressure there. There are really only three questions on the defensive line.
  • Can Brown produce at Peppers old spot?
  • Can Irvin/Tyler/Hayden/whoever? effectively replace Lewis?
  • Can the Panthers find some quality depth at the Defensive End position?
Toss in the Wide Receiver issue, and you really have three areas of concern. That's not too bad for an 8-8 team. The last NFC South team that went 8-8 was the Saints, and they had serious holes in their secondary and linebacker, no pass-rush, and questions on the interior of their offensive line. I think things turned out well for them, right?

Yas is selling papers again. Be patient.

Edited by Cyberjag, 10 March 2010 - 07:56 AM.


#20 carolinanimal

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:07 AM

If Peppers was still in Carolina, everyone on this board and everywhere else would be talking about how we were making big improvements across the board. Really, his position (and arguably Lewis') are the only two where we don't look to be upgrading.

  • Hoover was old and experienced, but Fiametta is younger and faster and has a year of NFL coaching under his belt.
  • Johnson rushes the passer better than Brayton, and has always played the run well.
  • Leonard collapses the pocket better than Kemo, and showed signs of being as good at commanding a double-team in his short stint last season. He's improved every year he's been in the league.
  • Moose is ancient by NFL standards, and we had a big need there before the purge.
  • Jake may come back and play well again like Warner did, but Moore needed to be given the keys.
  • Diggs was old and serviceable, but Connor has all the speed, all the instincts, and can still get better.
  • We tried the deep kickoff thing, now it looks like we're going to try good coverage instead. That worked when Kasay was younger, he's never consistently kicked them out of the end zone.
The ONLY position where we are genuinely worse off than last year at this time is at RDE, and we have Everette Brown ready to show us if he can generate pressure there. There are really only three questions on the defensive line.
  • Can Brown produce at Peppers old spot?
  • Can Irvin/Tyler/Hayden/whoever? effectively replace Lewis?
  • Can the Panthers find some quality depth at the Defensive End position?
Toss in the Wide Receiver issue, and you really have three areas of concern. That's not too bad for an 8-8 team. The last NFC South team that went 8-8 was the Saints, and they had serious holes in their secondary and linebacker, no pass-rush, and questions on the interior of their offensive line. I think things turned out well for them, right?

Yas is selling papers again. Be patient.


didn they fix those holes through fa?

#21 rayzor

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:12 AM

yasinskas isn't the voice of reason, i am.

notice meeeee!!!!!!

#22 panthers55

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:19 PM

If Peppers was still in Carolina, everyone on this board and everywhere else would be talking about how we were making big improvements across the board. Really, his position (and arguably Lewis') are the only two where we don't look to be upgrading.

  • Hoover was old and experienced, but Fiametta is younger and faster and has a year of NFL coaching under his belt.
  • Johnson rushes the passer better than Brayton, and has always played the run well.
  • Leonard collapses the pocket better than Kemo, and showed signs of being as good at commanding a double-team in his short stint last season. He's improved every year he's been in the league.
  • Moose is ancient by NFL standards, and we had a big need there before the purge.
  • Jake may come back and play well again like Warner did, but Moore needed to be given the keys.
  • Diggs was old and serviceable, but Connor has all the speed, all the instincts, and can still get better.
  • We tried the deep kickoff thing, now it looks like we're going to try good coverage instead. That worked when Kasay was younger, he's never consistently kicked them out of the end zone.
The ONLY position where we are genuinely worse off than last year at this time is at RDE, and we have Everette Brown ready to show us if he can generate pressure there. There are really only three questions on the defensive line.
  • Can Brown produce at Peppers old spot?
  • Can Irvin/Tyler/Hayden/whoever? effectively replace Lewis?
  • Can the Panthers find some quality depth at the Defensive End position?
Toss in the Wide Receiver issue, and you really have three areas of concern. That's not too bad for an 8-8 team. The last NFC South team that went 8-8 was the Saints, and they had serious holes in their secondary and linebacker, no pass-rush, and questions on the interior of their offensive line. I think things turned out well for them, right?

Yas is selling papers again. Be patient.


If Johnson is so good at pass rushing than why did Brayton get more sacks. I suspect that Johnson has less opportunities against the run but as many against the pass.

Louis started one game for us and 5 in career. He has one sack in his career. How exactly can you tell anything about him yet, particularly since he will be coming off IR.

Connors hasn't shown much. Anderson has done a much better job so far when Davis went down. Connor is not very good running with receivers and has little speed backing up. He is much better playing the run. He will likely be in a backup role this year.

We are worse off in many positions and have little depth. I usually agree with you on many things but not this time. The good news is that we have time to get better and improve. But to say we are worse off at one position is drinking more than just Koolaid.

#23 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:22 PM

panthers55 is upset because his fellow old farts are getting the axe.

#24 panthers55

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:25 PM

panthers55 is upset because his fellow old farts are getting the axe.


Yeah because I really identify with guys under 35. They aren't even close to old farts yet.

Fail again, stalker.

#25 panthers55

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:26 PM

notice meeeee!!!!!!


Your just upset because it isn't all about you.:D

#26 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:27 PM

Well something's up here, because you've literally been worse than gman was right the past week or so.

Anyone who thinks we're better off without all these old, declining players, you have to argue with them about it.

"Look at me! I'm old! Respect my opinion!"

#27 panthers55

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:43 PM

Well something's up here, because you've literally been worse than gman was right the past week or so.

Anyone who thinks we're better off without all these old, declining players, you have to argue with them about it.

"Look at me! I'm old! Respect my opinion!"


Not even close. I admit that I have taken issue with folks thrilled by the cuts. Because I think that being happy with all the changes is short sighted at this point. On the other hand I think that folks in the "sky is falling" camp are panicking way too early. It is March and free agency is only starting. Plus we haven't seen the draft yet. I fully expect us to make a number of moves and I am confident that Hurney will do a good job salvaging Richardson's new philosophy and that ultimately we will end up okay. I think we are far from playoff caliber at this point but we can't make those predictions until at least September at the earliest.

As usual I am taking a wait and see approach which is what you would do if you were indeed the voice of reason.

As for the other, it doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with me. I don't take a devils advocate approach or an "agree with the majority" view. I simply state what I think backed up by whatever evidence I can find to support it. I post to have a discussion. There are other forums with more reasoned discussion where trolls and negative comments are much better monitored and controlled. But there are no other sites with more traffic and range of opinion than the huddle. So I take the good with the bad.

And seriously if you can't distinguish between Gman and my posts, you do some reading comprehension classes.

#28 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:55 PM

Being happy with the cuts we've made isn't being short-sighted at all. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite of that, as most people who ARE happy with the changes that the team has made are looking past this upcoming season, to the future of the team as a whole. Having said that, if anyone's assuming that we're going to go 13-3 this season based solely on the players that we've LOST, that WOULD be short-sighted.

Right now, the future of the team looks pretty damn good. We're an extremely young team, true. And we may very well stumble and fall this upcoming season as our youngsters experience some growing pains. But we'll be much better off in the long run than we would be if we continued hindering the development of our young players by wheel-chairing out old, decrepit veterans when it's obvious that they are way past their prime.

#29 panthers55

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:29 PM

Being happy with the cuts we've made isn't being short-sighted at all. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite of that, as most people who ARE happy with the changes that the team has made are looking past this upcoming season, to the future of the team as a whole. Having said that, if anyone's assuming that we're going to go 13-3 this season based solely on the players that we've LOST, that WOULD be short-sighted.

Right now, the future of the team looks pretty damn good. We're an extremely young team, true. And we may very well stumble and fall this upcoming season as our youngsters experience some growing pains. But we'll be much better off in the long run than we would be if we continued hindering the development of our young players by wheel-chairing out old, decrepit veterans when it's obvious that they are way past their prime.


See now we can have a discussion. I think that people happy with the changes are reacting more to who we lost than who we may pick up down the road. So be it, I know many have wanted to make big changes. I think the future is undecided this year and far from good or bad at this point. I do worry about dumping so many veterans and leaders on the team so fast particularly not knowing who will step up at this point. I also wonder if we are done at this point or they are just waiting for the first round of cuts to sink in before doing more.

I don't at all agree with your comment that the guys we got rid of are old decrepid veterans way past their prime. Most of these guys were in their late 20s or early 30s. Unless we are talking dog years, most of them are relatively young and still productive even in football terms. Even some of the old guys like Moose and Lewis were still productive and were injury free last year. I am not unhappy with some of the cuts and think that getting of Lloyd, Brayton, Moose, Lewis, and Hoover will hurt us. The fact that our castaways are finding other teams pretty quickly should tell us that most other teams think these guys still have enough in the tank to be worth signing them.

So I far from optimistic at this point. But this surely is not a sky is falling post or predicting a 4-12 season. Perhaps I do appreciate veterans more than many on this forum and do believe that experience can often mitigate some athletic decline as a player ages. But I don't believe my stance is unconsidered, out in left field, or undefensible at this point. The fact that guys like Yasinskas agree with me as did Fowler and many others, just convinces me that my viewpoint is in the mainstream at this point. The over-exuberance of many of you seems to be the majority view here. That is a far change from when it used to be the realm of the lunatic fringe.

#30 Cyberjag

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:31 PM

If Johnson is so good at pass rushing than why did Brayton get more sacks. I suspect that Johnson has less opportunities against the run but as many against the pass.

Louis started one game for us and 5 in career. He has one sack in his career. How exactly can you tell anything about him yet, particularly since he will be coming off IR.

Connors hasn't shown much. Anderson has done a much better job so far when Davis went down. Connor is not very good running with receivers and has little speed backing up. He is much better playing the run. He will likely be in a backup role this year.

We are worse off in many positions and have little depth. I usually agree with you on many things but not this time. The good news is that we have time to get better and improve. But to say we are worse off at one position is drinking more than just Koolaid.


Serve me up a glass them, I need it because I'm about to get a bill from them. :)

Brayton got one more sack than Johnson in two more games, and in a starting role. He got two fewer passes defended, and they both forced two fumbles, for what it's worth. I like Brayton a lot, but I really think that Johnson is better already, and that Johnson would have been a start next year anyway.

Connor got a lot less playing time than Anderson because he backed up Diggs and Anderson backed up Davis. I don't know where you get that he's not as good as Diggs at running with receivers (did you mean Tight Ends, BTW?), when Diggs was out vs. New England Connor took his place and notched up 8 tackles and a fumble recovery with 3 on special teams. Diggs was back the next week versus Minnesota, but he didn't have a performance like that all year. In addition, Ben Watson only caught the ball three times that day, and one was a long TD that was more on our Free Safety than on our SAM Linebacker.

So for those two positions I honestly think we're in for an upgrade. I would love Brayton as depth, but I think Diggs has never been anything special and won't be missed much.

As far as Kemo, I was skeptical that he would recovery anyway given his size and the type of injury he had. Leonard looked good in his spot against the Eagles and Falcons before going down--neither lit us up on the ground and he proved with that sack that he has something Kemo didn't. While I'm not sure this is an upgrade, I strongly suspect it will prove to be.

Peppers will be missed, there's no positive way to look at that. Lewis, I think, will be missed as well. Our line is going to really be a big question mark, and it certainly doesn't have the promise it did a year ago. But if Peppers was back, I would wager that it would be improved somewhat.

As far as the other positions, Moore is an upgrade over Jake from a physical standpoint. I worry that we'll miss Jake's late game heroics, we'll have to see. We missed them last year, for what it's worth. I don't think Fiametta is an upgrade over Hoover, but I think he can be serviceable and don't see that as a serious loss. Bernadeau is already better than Vincent (in my opinion only).

So yeah, because of the defensive line we're not as good as we were last year. But I think we're in good shape. Even if the line has lost talent it's gained in youthful energy, which Meeks should be able to work with. The offense should be better if for no other reason than the line will be healthy and you can bet the FO will get a real receiver to replace Moose.

We're certainly in as good a shape as New Orleans was this time last year, and we're in arguably better shape than we were coming off the 2008 campaign.

So yeah, we disagree. It's not all bad, and parts are pretty good. And there's no way in hell you can compare this to 2001--just look at the 2002 roster and see how many players were dropped. We've got a ton of talent left.

I'm excited. Pass the koolaid!


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