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Republicans Waterloo


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#16 MadHatter

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:20 AM

The Republicans may have suffered a legislative defeat today. However, Obama's actions of ramming this bill through under reconciliation will be a huge blow to the Democrats in November.

Why would Obama try to hand pick the Democrat members of Congress who could vote no for this bill? Because, he knows that the majority of Americans did not want this abatross around our necks. Any of those who were in a moderately conservative state and would face a challenge in the next election were "allowed" to vote no.

Obama and crew know this was not wanted and they are trying to protect the party.

I hope the Democrats in Congress understand the price for supporting Obama in this case. It has cost many of them their jobs and the Democrats controll of the government.

#17 Zod

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:29 AM

Not really, this will help the Dems in November.

If it actually was a "gubment takeover of helfcare" it may have hurt them. But most Americans will notice no difference other than being able to insure their kids till age 26 if they choose and they will they themselves or will know someone finally able to get insured even though they have a preexisting condition. I suppose those that make over 250,000 a year may notice a different, but that what, 5% of the population that vote republican anyways?

The American Public loves a winner, and this historic passing of a bill makes Obama look like one.

#18 MadHatter

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:32 AM

Not really, this will help the Dems in November.

If it actually was a "gubment takeover of helfcare" it may have hurt them. But most Americans will notice no difference other than being able to insure their kids till age 26 if they choose and they will they themselves or will know someone finally able to get insured even though they have a preexisting condition. I suppose those that make over 250,000 a year may notice a different, but that what, 5% of the population that vote republican anyways?


Keep telling yourself that Zod. The polls have clearly indicated that the people did not want this bill.

Time will tell...my bet is that the Dems suffer huge defeats in November. The only thing that can save them is for the economy to improve....that would allow the Dems to deflect focus on yet another bill that increases taxes and increases government spending and control.

#19 Zod

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:41 AM

Keep telling yourself that Zod. The polls have clearly indicated that the people did not want this bill.

Time will tell...my bet is that the Dems suffer huge defeats in November. The only thing that can save them is for the economy to improve....that would allow the Dems to deflect focus on yet another bill that increases taxes and increases government spending and control.


Funny how you put your faith in polls now when over the last 8 years polls were worthless. The latest poll showed 46 for and 40 against, but I don't put much stock into them.

Bottom Line: Most people will see positive change from this bill despite the corny rhetoric from the desperate right.

#20 pstall

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:01 AM

Funny how you put your faith in polls now when over the last 8 years polls were worthless. The latest poll showed 46 for and 40 against, but I don't put much stock into them.

Bottom Line: Most people will see positive change from this bill despite the corny rhetoric from the desperate right.


List when the positive changes take effect.
Again, the bill was crafted in a way to cover the Dems who voted for this in the short term. Nothing dramatic but there are some changes.


Zod I bet 1000 that the Dems lose control of Congress in the next election. Go back and pull vids on townhalls where there were Dems being put thru the ringer in their own district over this.

This only passed because you had some Dems either quit the Senate or retired and there were some key No voters who took a bribe(that's what it was) to change their votes.
So think about it. You had some in their own party who NEVER liked the bill minus one or two wanting public option, which says volumes about them, and somehow the people are gonna roll over?

I think that's the liberal/Dems logic. We always know what's best for the masses and we have it under control.
I see a landslide for the Reps this Nov.

#21 Kral

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:02 AM

List when the positive changes take effect.
Again, the bill was crafted in a way to cover the Dems who voted for this in the short term. Nothing dramatic but there are some changes.


Zod I bet 1000 that the Dems lose control of Congress in the next election. Go back and pull vids on townhalls where there were Dems being put thru the ringer in their own district over this.

This only passed because you had some Dems either quit the Senate or retired and there were some key No voters who took a bribe(that's what it was) to change their votes.
So think about it. You had some in their own party who NEVER liked the bill minus one or two wanting public option, which says volumes about them, and somehow the people are gonna roll over?

I think that's the liberal/Dems logic. We always know what's best for the masses and we have it under control.
I see a landslide for the Reps this Nov.


Your $1000 against my 1000 cents (American) and you are on for a bet.

#22 pstall

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:29 AM

Your $1000 against my 1000 cents (American) and you are on for a bet.


There is something poetic about this...:biggrin5:

#23 Kral

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:32 AM

There is something poetic about this...:biggrin5:


lol

It's probably close to our personal wealth ratio.

#24 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:50 AM

I would like to point out what should be obvious. The "mad people" at the town halls were not people on the fence about who they would vote for. If they showed up to a meeting and the guy they were yelling at told them he would drop support for any kind of health care reform to placate them, they still would never vote for him.

This whole "my congress does not represent my will!" thing is such a crybaby sham. Your favored party put in a guy that could not win, supported by a VP whose main draw was the cheesecake factor. The people that voted Obama in understood pretty clearly that healthcare reform was a major goal of his administration. The people that made the Dems a supermajority also understood this. Therefore, the Congress DOES represent the will of the people.

As pointed out in the article, instead of just showing a little bit of reason and working to get what might be important for you all considered into this legislation, basically ALL OF YOU that did not vote for Obama decided that yelling no and calling people names, and hoping for the best, was your most logical course of action. You failed. You failed because this is not how the American political process works. It's built on compromise. When Bush was busy setting up his giveaway to the rich after he was elected, the Dems, who hated that idea and campaigned actively against it, decided to work with Bush to make sure that there was an expiration date to them - just in case. They took the good with the bad and did not look like complete fools in the process. What goes around comes around, and here are the Dems in a position where the expiration of those ill advised revenue cuts as we spiraled into deficit from surplus is a good thing indeed.

The 30 percent of people that believe in death panels and other idiocy are not going to be swayed. They are going to have their tea parties and pretend they are libertarians when pressed about their own parties similar shortcomings, then push the R button at crunch time. They will rail about how the government wants to take their stuff and give it away, how the only way progressives could ever win is for ACORN to make up voters, how everyone that voted for Obama did so for the sole purpose of getting free things....all of this is very well explained in that article.

I didn't write it, you know. The guy that did has written about why he opposes the health care plan, but it's not because of death panels or socialism, it's because he disapproves of some of the financials around it - a reasonable argument.

But reason is not what gets you anywhere these days. Every argument has to be delivered in a screeching, whining, crying, bitter and angry voice for some reason.

#25 Kurb

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:57 AM

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.


And there sports fans is the cusp of the whole fugign problem in DC.

The nut jobs run the fuging show on both sides of the isle, and those in the middle are left to rot.

#26 Bobby

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 09:33 AM

It's power worship. Republicans will follow anyone they see as powerful, in lockstep.

Why do you think megachurches are so wildly popular?

Once the cogs get turning on the bill people will see that, "holy crap, this isn't bad at all!" and all of a sudden Obama won't look like the Devil.

#27 MadHatter

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 09:42 AM

that line might have worked to scare people before the bill, but now that it's actually passed, it doesn't work to say that the bill raised taxes when it didn't. people will know you're bullpooting.

even among teabaggers, only 12% are stupid enough to think their taxes have gone up when Obama has really cut them.


So, you actually think that we will spend $1 Trillion....lower taxes...and it will be deficit reducing.

No wonder you failed math.

#28 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:52 PM

I would like to point out what should be obvious. The "mad people" at the town halls were not people on the fence about who they would vote for. If they showed up to a meeting and the guy they were yelling at told them he would drop support for any kind of health care reform to placate them, they still would never vote for him.

This whole "my congress does not represent my will!" thing is such a crybaby sham. Your favored party put in a guy that could not win, supported by a VP whose main draw was the cheesecake factor. The people that voted Obama in understood pretty clearly that healthcare reform was a major goal of his administration. The people that made the Dems a supermajority also understood this. Therefore, the Congress DOES represent the will of the people.

As pointed out in the article, instead of just showing a little bit of reason and working to get what might be important for you all considered into this legislation, basically ALL OF YOU that did not vote for Obama decided that yelling no and calling people names, and hoping for the best, was your most logical course of action. You failed. You failed because this is not how the American political process works. It's built on compromise. When Bush was busy setting up his giveaway to the rich after he was elected, the Dems, who hated that idea and campaigned actively against it, decided to work with Bush to make sure that there was an expiration date to them - just in case. They took the good with the bad and did not look like complete fools in the process. What goes around comes around, and here are the Dems in a position where the expiration of those ill advised revenue cuts as we spiraled into deficit from surplus is a good thing indeed.

The 30 percent of people that believe in death panels and other idiocy are not going to be swayed. They are going to have their tea parties and pretend they are libertarians when pressed about their own parties similar shortcomings, then push the R button at crunch time. They will rail about how the government wants to take their stuff and give it away, how the only way progressives could ever win is for ACORN to make up voters, how everyone that voted for Obama did so for the sole purpose of getting free things....all of this is very well explained in that article.

I didn't write it, you know. The guy that did has written about why he opposes the health care plan, but it's not because of death panels or socialism, it's because he disapproves of some of the financials around it - a reasonable argument.

But reason is not what gets you anywhere these days. Every argument has to be delivered in a screeching, whining, crying, bitter and angry voice for some reason.


See, it's crap like that comment that make it so difficult to even consider your high-horse rhetoric. You're as bad as you accuse others of being.

You won't let people disagree with this thing based on "reasonable argument." You simply assign everyone who does disagree with it to the groups you say are yelling about death panels and socialism. It's so very black and white for you ... and no, that wasn't a racist reference.

#29 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:55 PM

It's power worship. Republicans will follow anyone they see as powerful, in lockstep.

Why do you think megachurches are so wildly popular?

Once the cogs get turning on the bill people will see that, "holy crap, this isn't bad at all!" and all of a sudden Obama won't look like the Devil.


You mean like this one?

http://www.trinitych...id=12&Itemid=27

(8,500 members)

#30 Claws

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 03:15 PM

It's power worship. Republicans will follow anyone they see as powerful, in lockstep.

Why do you think megachurches are so wildly popular?

Once the cogs get turning on the bill people will see that, "holy crap, this isn't bad at all!" and all of a sudden Obama won't look like the Devil.


That's a helluva point you made there. Nice job.


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