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Constitutionality of Mandatory Insurance


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#16 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:05 PM

The fine itself is 1% of your yearly income. (For most people)


And it increases if you don't purchase a plan.

#17 ChucktownK

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:10 PM

Boy PL you need to get with the program. Republicans have taken great pains to make sure they call it a tax instead of a fee over the past year to scare people. Now that it's passed we should call it something else to try and end it?

Yeah, thats the Republicans stategery in a nutshell.


Fee
Definition
A charge for services rendered.


Tax
Definition
A fee charged ("levied") by a government on a product, income, or activity. If tax is levied directly on personal or corporate income, then it is a direct tax. If tax is levied on the price of a good or service, then it is called an indirect tax. The purpose of taxation is to finance government expenditure. One of the most important uses of taxes is to finance public goods and services, such as street lighting and street cleaning. Since public goods and services do not allow a non-payer to be excluded, or allow exclusion by a consumer, there cannot be a market in the good or service, and so they need to be provided by the government or a quasi-government agency, which tend to finance themselves largely through taxes.

#18 ChucktownK

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:12 PM

I don't get with the program because I'm not a Republican.

I can see trying to compare it to a tax, but it's not ... it has the effect of one, but it is not ....


It's EXTREMELY hard for them to understand that Republicans aren't the only people opposed to this. EXTREMELY!!!

#19 rodeo

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:15 PM

but as Nate pointed out, there is no criminal penalty. so it remains to be seen how these fines will be enforced.

#20 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 08:04 PM

As I pointed out in the other thread, the lawsuits attack the requirement to own health insurance primarily and then the threat of penalty as a secondary issue related to the primary one. All precedent, including Social Security and Medicare, would apply to the penalty, not the primary issue being raised in the lawsuit.

And for Mr. Silver's benefit, it would be more constitutional for the Government to collect a tax and then spend it on health insurance ("single payer") than to require you to purchase something on your own based entirely on the precedents that exist.

Just out of curiosity, what were his opinions on Bush v. Gore before that decision was written?

#21 rodeo

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 08:09 PM

Just out of curiosity, what were his opinions on Bush v. Gore before that decision was written?


he was like 20 then, haha. he only got into political analysis relatively recently. his background is statistics, he's really a genius in that field and does it for fun 24/7. he started out predicting baseball.

#22 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 08:14 PM

he was like 20 then, haha. he only got into political analysis relatively recently. his background is statistics, he's really a genius in that field and does it for fun 24/7. he started out predicting baseball.


Ah. Ok. The only reason I ask is that is the last major Supreme Court decision that had no precedent before it and that wound up with there being no constitutional right to vote. At least, last one I can think of. And I truly don't think there's a clear precedent in regards to the issues in this lawsuit.

Is he one of those freaks who came up with all these new baseball stats?

#23 rodeo

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:16 PM

nah it was like a fantasy baseball projection thing.

here is a blurb from his wiki:

"By kindergarten, he could multiply two-digit numbers in his head. By 11, he was conducting multivariate analysis to figure out if the size of a baseball stadium affects attendance (it doesn’t). By age 13, he was using statistics to manage a fantasy baseball team. When his parents refused to buy him computer games, he taught himself the BASIC programming language and created his own".

#24 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:19 PM

nah it was like a fantasy baseball projection thing.

here is a blurb from his wiki:

"By kindergarten, he could multiply two-digit numbers in his head. By 11, he was conducting multivariate analysis to figure out if the size of a baseball stadium affects attendance (it doesn’t). By age 13, he was using statistics to manage a fantasy baseball team. When his parents refused to buy him computer games, he taught himself the BASIC programming language and created his own".


Huh. He really doesn't sound that special.

Is all that really that advanced? Maybe by universal standards, but by generational standards? I find that hard to believe.

#25 rodeo

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:23 PM

it's the startling accuracy of his predictions that is special. when every major poll had the NC primary too close to call, he had Obama winning by 14. Obama won by 14. he accurately called 49 out of 50 states in the election, and was within just a few electoral votes.

#26 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

Still not impressed. I mean, statistically speaking, there are too many people putting out opinions these days for a few of them not to be right. That's the basic model of how the major news corps built their audiences.

#27 rodeo

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:51 AM

he doesn't need you to be impressed, he was one of Time's most influential people less than a year after getting into the field.

#28 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 08:13 AM

but as Nate pointed out, there is no criminal penalty. so it remains to be seen how these fines will be enforced.


Probably liens and heavy-handed threats from the IRS (or some other government agency).

#29 pstall

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 08:28 AM

I bet I can predict the price of oil 6 months from now better than this guy. Although that might not be his cup of tea..black tea that is..texas tea...black gold..