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Tebow's pre-Wonderlic prayer request falls flat


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#121 Samuel L. Jackson

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:34 PM

I can assure you I am very open minded... It is because of that fact that I am where I am at in my belief system today...

I argue against religion because it has less proven validity than stuff like science...

But, if you want to continue to believe the world is flat when in fact it has been proven to be round, then that is still your choice and right... Don't shoot the jester for making fun of your ignorance...

If you can show me proof or validity of anything contained within the Bible, aside from specific places existing (because stories can be written around these (see any work of fiction that is based in a real world place)), I'll stop with the harshness of my diatribes...

Until then, you can shut the fug up too!

;)

LOL I know that last line was harsh, and I still love all of you, but I'm just waiting on one of you to tell me to do the same...

#122 CharlotteBeer.com

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:34 PM

I have a belief that evolution is a mechanism created by God. :D


I said I wouldn't get into evolution (because you know how incendiary a topic it is), but I think about that all of the time.

I mean, if you side with the "divine watchmaker" argument -- that all beings are so perfectly designed that they must be manufacturered by an intelligent creator -- then you would have to also submit this this intelligent creator would be capable of setting into motion evolution.

#123 Samuel L. Jackson

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:35 PM

You all post way to fast for me... hahahahaha

#124 Samuel L. Jackson

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:36 PM

Evolution is fact... See transitional species...

Has this thread been moved to the Tinderbox yet? lol... I haven't checked...

#125 scpanther22

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:41 PM

I have signatures disabled, so I can't really comment on that. So what we're really talking about here is religious people who give no credence to science? I really think, in this day and age, those people are few and far between. The biggest example of those two being at odds would be a cosmological account of the Earth's creation -- but I think most religious people "believe in" science and the two are not as contradictory as you think.

Of course, there's also the whole evolution thing, but maybe we shouldn't go there today. :D


This is my sig..I dont see anything wrong with it..But thats not required for argument here.lol:rolleyes5:

Socrates taught for 40 years, Plato for 50, Aristotle for 40, and Jesus for only 3. Yet the influence of Christ's 3-year ministry infinitely transcends the impact left by the combined 130 years of teaching from these men who were among the greatest philosophers of all antiquity-unknown



#126 PantherBrew

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:43 PM

If you can show me proof or validity of anything contained within the Bible, aside from specific places existing (because stories can be written around these (see any work of fiction that is based in a real world place)), I'll stop with the harshness of my diatribes...

COLOR]


Ah, hah!

But, can you disprove anything written in the Bible. :hand:

How does that taste Jimmy Neutron the science kid?

I, for one, believe that most of the Bible is figuarative. Intended to teach lessons about how to live life. Many of the fundamentalist that you lump all Christians with would be Suicide bombers in they were born in Afghanistan.

#127 CharlotteBeer.com

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:43 PM

Evolution is fact... See transitional species...

Has this thread been moved to the Tinderbox yet? lol... I haven't checked...


That we are alive right now is fact.

Can you explain how we got here? (The universe as a whole -- what predated it, what set into motion the "Big Bang," etc.)

Life is not all about facts and science -- if it is, I would think it poorly lived.

#128 Panthro

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:44 PM

The Golden Calf of Bristol has every right to ask to hold a prayer before the test....just like that guy had every right to tell him to shut the fug up



Hell I'd say a lil prayer bfore I took a test like that too.

#129 Scrumtrilescent

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:47 PM

How many nickels are in $1.35?

#130 Panthro

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:48 PM

eleventeen

#131 twylyght

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:48 PM

As far as the "assuming arrogance" point you agreed with Beaux Berry, I'm not just speaking for myself, because my posts in this thread have had a lot of agreement... be it publicly or privately...

Again, I never said ANYWHERE that Science has all the answers either, and I pretty much agree that it may very well never... But true scientists never claim to have them all, unlike the religious fundamentalists, as I stated earlier...

I'm not lumping all "religious" people into the same category, because there are some genuinely good religious people out there... But when the word Science is thrown into the face of a philosophical argument, it is automatically deemed all-encompassing of non-believers...

scpanther22's signature is an absurd quote... bottom line... and for anyone to actually give that quote any sort of respect is totally unacceptable...


Again, I am glad that you are trying to articulate the popular viewpoint for people of today in western culture. This provides a good forum for walking people through what they actually believe and putting it to the test.

Now again for the test: It may be semantics, but I want to ask the question to be sure. Why is someone else's quote unacceptable to you? The presumption is that such a statement is an affront to your beliefs and should be abolished by banter or peer pressure or by force if necessary.

I now ask you this as an excercise in your "faith vs. science" mindset. You mentioned earlier that a prayer in the face of cancer will not save you. How do you know that? Has there ever been such a thing as a "medical miracle"? I also offer another perspective.

Of course, science is not allowed to make room for "faith" in its original philosophy, but in application you will see all manners of faith employed. Eugenics, Global Cooling, Global Warming, Vitamin C and "part of this complete breakfast" come to mind.

But let's break it down even further. Perhaps "faith" actually has a place in science, but the politics of scientists would not allow for its recognition as an actual working phenomenon. Consider the placebo effect.... the absolute most demonstrated phenomenon in medical science. If you replace the word "placebo" with "faith" you have actually changed nothing in the actual understanding, realization, nor denial of its existence. In fact, quite the contrary. The placebo effect shows us that "if you believe it, then it is real."

Religion/faith doesn't have to offer explanations to everything for everyone. In fact, such a mindset actually represent a tiny fraction in America today. What it offers is a means to provide comfort, guidance in moral dilemmas, and hope to where many need it.

Like all things, there are those that would seek to exploit such a weakness of others as exemplified by your infamous televangelists of yesterday and today. Some even grow so close to their own faiths and have invested so much of their lives into their perceptions that the slightest challenge (real or perceived) is met with hostility, belittlement, contempt, and in some cases, violence. It was the preachers and priests of the day that ended up killing Jesus. Not because what Jesus taught was fundamentally false, but because his teachings challenged their presumptions, social standing, and power in their establised world.

I say all this because the parallels are not limited to strictly social and religious settings. These are phenomena that are observed in all facets of one's personal and professional lives today.

If we can truly believe that we cannot know all the answers, then our responses cannot reflect the contrary. You are obviously intelligent and have invested a lot of time in your world view. I would merely ask that you feed your nature to play devil's advocate and apply it to your own paradigm.

Edited by twylyght, 25 March 2010 - 01:58 PM.


#132 theyhateme45

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:52 PM

Ah, hah!

But, can you disprove anything written in the Bible. :hand:

How does that taste Jimmy Neutron the science kid?

I, for one, believe that most of the Bible is figuarative. Intended to teach lessons about how to live life. Many of the fundamentalist that you lump all Christians with would be Suicide bombers in they were born in Afghanistan.


How the church itself points to parts of the Old Testament as out dated, non-binding, a lack of validity.

You don't have to disprove it when there in different sections of the bible that contradicts each other... both cannot be correct... can it?? :confused:

#133 CharlotteBeer.com

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:57 PM

Have you read any Kierkegaard, SLJ?

He was a Christian existentialist who openly admitted that it is absurd to believe in a God -- that it is quite irrational and unreasonable to think about something for which we have no proof of existence. At the same time, this lack of proof -- this doubt -- is the crux of Christianity and many other faiths.

If we had all the answers and knew that Jesus was actually the son of God who was sent to save us, then we could not be saved. Because salvation in this sense requires a "leap of faith".

Faith constitutes a sphere all by itself and every misunderstanding of Christianity may at once be recognized by its transforming it into a doctrine, transferring it to the sphere of the intellectual.


One cannot seek for what he knows, and it seems equally impossible to seek for what one does not know.


For without risk there is no faith, and the greater the risk, the greater the faith; the more objective security, the less inwardness (for inwardness is precisely subjectivity), and the less objective security, the more profound the possible inwardness.


Kierkegaard is the man.

#134 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 02:07 PM

AHAHAHAHAHA...

Ahahaha haHAha... haHAH.. aha.. HAha...

Nothing "gets to me" at all... I just find the debate fun and ego inflating...

You've made some pretty emotional statements for someone who "doesn't let things get to you" :sosp:

What you've not answered is why it matters to you how an athlete celebrates or expresses themselves. There are plenty of people who believe differently than I do and express it. I've never considered someone else making a simple expression of their beliefs to be some personal afront to me just because I believe differently.

Being upset over someone else expressing their beliefs on the field of play as if it somehow hurts you sounds pretty small.

#135 Mr. Scot

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 02:11 PM

And just to revisit, indications are that the story in the OP never happened.


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