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methodtoll

I don't get this at all

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as Cyberjag pointed out we had Hartwig coming off injury so we did in fact need Kailil...

Derrick Johnson plays the same position as Davis and as a matter of a fact according to most peeps he was the BPA above Davis at the time. Beason was drafted after Willis who also plays the same position as Willis. And according to alot of people Quinn was the BPA on the board at the time, remember he fell alot. It almost seems as if your solidifying my argument without realizing it

Actually, what I am arguing is the fact that most fans are sold on a certain position or player and yet mostly every time the Hurney and and Fox pull a fast one on ya.

To counter argue, Kalil was not a need due to the fact that Hartwig was on the roster and there were other guys on there that could play multiple positions. Most, at the time, consider this a move of value more then need and it certainly paid off. The same is said about Connor, not really a need because we have Beason and solid LBing corp but again, its about value.

As for Davis, at the time, nobody knew for certain whether he was a safety or a linebacker which is why most fans, AT THE TIME, questioned this pick over Derrick Johnson.

and if Brady Quinn was really the BPA then why did the Panthers pass on him to move down and get Beason? Beason, to me, was more of a BPA then Quinn, I believe

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The BPA approach is a solid philosophy except for the first pick for the panthers. The first pick whether first or second round is generally someone the FO is targeting for a specific reason. After that first pick the BPA approach is in full swing.

The reason I feel that way is that the first pick generally needs to fill some role for the team...be it a future replacement (brown, beason) a quality backup (Jonathon Stewart), a mike vick spy (Thomas davis), or a gaping hole (gross, peppers, gamble). Those first picks HAVE to fill a need and the role that the FO envisions. This year that role is a potential starter at WR...so the first pick will probably be a WR it just depends on which one they have their eye on.

After that the FO has been really good at taking the BPA for later picks do we could see a CB in the 3rd, a safety in the 4th, or a QB at some point (although I don't want one)...it's really up in the air.

But bc they signed brayton and expect connor to start I feel that the first pick will be a WR. The only scenerio that I could see us not picking a receiver would be if eversen griffen dropped to the second round and we made a move up to get him but since we picked a DE with the first pick last year I doubt that would happen.

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Not to be shocked? Everybody will be. We need a WR for now and the future

And we have a great collection of receivers coming out this year

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On BPA, it's really simple. They identify the primary areas of need, and look for BPA from those positions. However, if nobody of value is available at one of those positions they will go general BPA, particularly if someone they had rated significantly higher falls in their laps (i.e. Kalil and Connor).

As for Jarrett, throughout this off-season, I have felt that he will surprise quite a few people next year. However, after reading between the lines of what Smitty, Fox, and Hurney have recently said about him, I am no longer sure I was correct. The impression I am now left with is that despite everyone really wanting and needing him to step up, nobody is confident that he will. I get the feeling they think he can, but not that he will. IMO, that speaks volumes about how they perceive his work ethic and dedication. So, I think we have to approach things as if he will not step up. That way, if he does, we get bonus points, but are not left holding an empty bag if he disappoints again.

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not true.

it might take 2 years to reach full potential, but an impact can be immediate.

very true. percy harvin is a good example

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On BPA, it's really simple. They identify the primary areas of need, and look for BPA from those positions. However, if nobody of value is available at one of those positions they will go general BPA, particularly if someone they had rated significantly higher falls in their laps (i.e. Kalil and Connor).

As for Jarrett, throughout this off-season, I have felt that he will surprise quite a few people next year. However, after reading between the lines of what Smitty, Fox, and Hurney have recently said about him, I am no longer sure I was correct. The impression I am now left with is that despite everyone really wanting and needing him to step up, nobody is confident that he will. I get the feeling they think he can, but not that he will. IMO, that speaks volumes about how they perceive his work ethic and dedication. So, I think we have to approach things as if he will not step up. That way, if he does, we get bonus points, but are not left holding an empty bag if he disappoints again.

i agree. they look at BPA in a position oif need. this year, we need a WR a DE and a LB. when we are on the clock, they will take the best availible player at any of those positions. if they feel like the are reaching too far, then they disregaurd the position, and just take the best football player availible like they did wioth connor or kalil.

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Eh, we needed a Safety for years. They drafted one and turned him into a Linebacker. Then they finally took a cornerback and converted him to Safety.

Don't be too sure they'll take a receiver early, especially if they have to reach for him. They'll take a DE or LB first. Or The Golden Calf of Bristol... :)

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It has a lot to do with where we have picked throughout the Fox era. His first draft netted us early picks (thanks to the 1-15 year). Since then, however, we've had picks in the mid to late part of the first rounds.

That first season, Julius Peppers was a no-brainer pick, the obvious cream of the crop. And that happens every year, the real cream of the crop goes in the first seven picks or so. The others then have to hope that who is first on their draft board is still available or that someone even better falls to them.

From a fan's perspective, we try and pick by position. It makes a lot of sense to us and that is how the sports news guys go about it. Maycock and others all tout this lineman or that receiver.

Some teams always pick this way. They are generally losers and chasers. You know, teams like the Lions, Raiders and Browns that can never seem to put it together and always dwell at the bottom of the heap. Or the Chasers like the Cowboys or Redskins that are always trying to fill a spot of weakness on last year's team as they keep chasing after the respectability their teams had in yesteryear. They are always trying to fix last year's team and that really doesn't work. (These teams usually are getting strong pushes on picks/acquisitions from the ownership rather than the coaching staff.) They get a bit of tunnelvision as they tinker with last year's team, forgetting that you can't go back and recreate history but instead think forward and plan ahead.

Then you come to a team like the Panthers. This is a contender team, built to challenge for the top positions. It doesn't feature a big name game-breaker (Peyton Manning, the LT of old, Brett Favre, Michael Vick of old, etc...) around which to hang the framework of a SuperBowl bound team. Instead, it relies on a team concept.

Sometimes these Concept Teams really, really work well. The past decade's New England Patriots or the San Francisco 49ers of the '80s/early '90s are fine examples, as are the Steelers of the 1970s, Browns of the 1950s or the Packers of the '60s. The team has an identity, a style of play (West Coast offense, smash mouth, etc...) and players are picked to fit into that mold. A Concept Team might pass on a great receiver to pick up a guard that fits their style better, making picks that leave some "experts" saying how "interesting" that particular choice is. Once the pick is made, it makes perfect sense, but it's hard to predict these without taking the time to go deep into analysis of that team's potentials.

So, back to Carolina. We're a concept team and a contender. We're at worst, middle of the pack in the Fox era and at best a Super Bowl contender. The concept is a smash-mouth running team featuring limited deep strike passing and a bend-don't break defense. In other words, a classic conservative football team. As such, we need strong line support on the offense, strong running backs and our defensive strength starts at the linebackers and then moves to the DL. More than anything, it requires players that can take multiple roles and responsibilities. Brutes for the linemen, cannonballs for the running backs, daredevils for linebackers. If one of those is available when Carolina comes to pick, they will be taken over any positional athlete, no matter the skillset. If one of those three is not available, then the best available athlete is taken, preferably a smart one with strong ethics. The best athlete can then be molded into what the team concept needs -- i.e. Thomas Davis safety to linebacker or Steve Smith KR to WR.

So who will we pick? Heck if I know. Too many teams go before us, but I am betting that it will either be a lineman if one of the tops is still available, or they will move to a hybrid-type player who could fill multiple roles. Strange to say, but if The Golden Calf of Bristol is available, they may take him for the potential of the QB or receiver, whatever the long term needs of the team concept dictate. Or you might see an Armanti Edwards sneak in.

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I want you to answer me a few questions

If the BPA theory is B.S. then why did we select Ryan Kalil in the 2nd round?

or

Why did we select Dan Connor in 3rd when it wasn't a need?

To answer your question, THEY WERE THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE

so to say that WR is our only option is pretty flawed, if there is a player at a position that is undoubtably better then any talent alone then they will take a risk... to some extent.

If you really want to base it off of needs then our weak point is at the QB position because all we have behind Moore is Hunter Cantwell, who has been on the practice squad up to the point where Jake "went down" and they had to elevate him. No McCown, No Feeley, and No Jake... Where is the depth?

One could argue that we have no depth at WR too, however, I am inclined to say that we atleast have a little depth there with Jarrett and Moore. Am I saying that they either of them will make an impact? Not at all but to me it seems to me it would be logical, from the team's standpoint, to take a position other then WR.

Also, if they select a QB, keep in mind that we already have a clear starter going into camp and his name is Matt Moore so it isn't like a rookie QB will start whereas a rookie receiver may have to start beside Smitty because there is no clear #2 as of yet.

So pretty much what I am trying to tell you is that there is no way in telling who Fox and Hurney will select but I wouldn't rule out other positions because you think they are not a need.

Just my two cents...

Yea but we also drafted Davis in the first round when Derek Johnson was on the board. He was the highest ranked lb. We picked gamble when other CBs were ranked higher. Hell we picked Jarrett when there were higher ranked WRs on the board. So its a combo of BPA and who we want. BPA comes in the later rounds.

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Yea but we also drafted Davis in the first round when Derek Johnson was on the board. He was the highest ranked lb. We picked gamble when other CBs were ranked higher. Hell we picked Jarrett when there were higher ranked WRs on the board. So its a combo of BPA and who we want. BPA comes in the later rounds.

Really if I recall Jarrett was projected to go in the 1st and was the highest rated player when we picked.

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