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#91 PantherBrew

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:56 AM

It doesnt matter if you did, all that matters is the perception that you did not vote for a black man. People lie all the time. :D


Well, I percieve that you are just an angry man who happens to be black, and gets upset when someone from a different race doesn't agree with something you believe.


It's a shame too. Because I know you are intelligent, and you do have some insightful posts. But, when you constantly make everything about someone's skin color, you lose so much credability.

But, I know you probably wont ever change, and sometimes I believe that you are so over-the-top with your "race based theories" that you have become a characture on the huddle.

It's alright though, I will continue to respectfully disagree with your opinions and theories.

But, I still hope you can pull for the Charlotte Flight as much as you do for the BobJohnsonCats. :D

#92 Matt Foley

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 10:20 AM

If we dont like the team name or the owner, it must be because he is black and sucessful. Not because the team name is stupid.


LOL. It really is that simple. Failure to comprehend that can be defined as IGNORANCE.

I can bold, too.

#93 Vagrant

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 10:30 AM

1. I don't support Bob Johnson's tenure as owner here. I think he mismanaged the franchise.

2. I have stated in the past that I disagreed with some of the methods employed by Johnson to bring in select clientele, and I stand by those, but acknowledge that my own sensitivities do not preclude other people from enjoying the product.

3. Changing the name of the team is an awful idea. If you felt so passionately about this issue, you're four or five years too late. Plus, like it or not, Bob Johnson is a part of the Charlotte Bobcats legacy and it should not be destroyed. He helped bring the team here because he believed in our market. His failure to make it thrive does not change that it was an honor for him to deliver us another franchise. I give him great credit for that.

4. And yes, I do think the name change idea is racially motivated. No other explanation suits the situation, in my estimation. There is no precedent for it. The Bullets only changed names because their name was culturally insensitive and sent the wrong message to fans. And in an interesting aside, can you only imagine if the Bullets were still named the Bullets after the Gilbert Arenas fiasco? Thank God we missed all the puns that would have sprung from that one.

#94 PantherBrew

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 10:37 AM

1. I don't support Bob Johnson's tenure as owner here. I think he mismanaged the franchise.

2. I have stated in the past that I disagreed with some of the methods employed by Johnson to bring in select clientele, and I stand by those, but acknowledge that my own sensitivities do not preclude other people from enjoying the product.

3. Changing the name of the team is an awful idea. If you felt so passionately about this issue, you're four or five years too late. Plus, like it or not, Bob Johnson is a part of the Charlotte Bobcats legacy and it should not be destroyed. He helped bring the team here because he believed in our market. His failure to make it thrive does not change that it was an honor for him to deliver us another franchise. I give him great credit for that.

4. And yes, I do think the name change idea is racially motivated. No other explanation suits the situation, in my estimation. There is no precedent for it. The Bullets only changed names because their name was culturally insensitive and sent the wrong message to fans. And in an interesting aside, can you only imagine if the Bullets were still named the Bullets after the Gilbert Arenas fiasco? Thank God we missed all the puns that would have sprung from that one.


K, Couple things.

A name change would have been impossible with him being the owner, so the 4 or 5 years too late thing doesn't fly.

And don't think for one second that the reason Bob Johnson brought a basketball team to Charlotte because he care about the people and he felt sorry for us. Him, as with Jerry Richardson and any other team owner saw a chance to make $$$. LOL @ the notion that he brought a team for any other reason besides money or ego. And that goes for all owners.

Heres an expanation for a name change. Bobcats sounds stupid. :P

#95 Proudiddy

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:00 AM

MJ4Life, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, even though Bob himself said that he didnt name the team after himself, even though anyone with a shred of business knowledge knows financial decisions like these go thru many channels and arent made on a whim, certain people are still gonna believe what they want to believe. By definition that is called IGNORANCE.

I have no doubt in my mind that if Bob were a white business owner, people would take him at face value at what he said that he didnt name the team after himself. And if he were a white business owner it wouldnt bother them one bit if he did like a JB Duke or Bruton Smith any of the other local businesses that we've patronized all of our lives named after superwealthy white man. There wouldnt be the "investment" and "going behind" on business decisions, people would respect the decisions of said white business owner as being final. Instead posters insist he's a liar and bitch about business decisions made 7 years ago. The importance of portraying Bob as the "egomaniac black billionaire" is for people to justify their blind hatred towards him. All of this hate & ignorance was taught by the Charlotte Observer, any we all now see that. Any and everyone who's complained about this issue, patronizes their product. Thats not a coincidence.

Saying Bob named the team after himself is no different than saying Obama is a muslim or he's not American. Or saying blacks arent smart enough to play QB or point guard. It doesnt matter if isnt true, its the perception thats important. :thumbsup: The ends justifies the means to some folks. And we're suppposed to cater to these people? :frown2:


Like I mentioned in my last post, Bob himself wasn't the reason for my wanting a name change.

And when I said I didn't remember the name "Bobcats" ever being in the running when the franchise was starting up, I meant in the articles and stories I read during that time. I know mj4life said the ESPN article on this thread actually mentioned "Bobcats," so I could be wrong there... I didn't see it, but can't say I read all the way through it - in part b/c the observer had posted it in their change the name agenda. I still think the name "Bobcats" had some tie to Bob Johnson... Even if it was a fan suggestion, as I said, it was his team, and it would have to go through many channels before approval, but I don't really know who would really say no. In fact, I think most would say at the time they thought it was a cool coincidence, so nobody really cared either way.

Also, I believe you about BJ saying himself he didn't name the team after himself, but I haven't read or seen anywhere. Admittedly, I didn't have many media sources to look to for non-biased Bobcats coverage so I was in the dark on that one. I would like to read it.

I feel I'm very different in regards to the people who have asked for a name change - my reasons are not nearly the same. Like I mentioned before, I've read people saying that won't EVER support the team b/c of the name blah blah blah... And you know I've already supported our team.

I can't say for sure though that the observer's articles from when we first got the Cats hasn't jaded me a bit, b/c as I said, I WAS gullible reading it not thinking they would ever have their own agenda against our hometown team.

I would take BJ at face value for whatever he said regarding the name, sadly, I have never heard or seen it - but I haven't looked. But, in regards to the name change I do believe race and bias are the main reasons behind a great deal of those asking for a change, but anyone that knows me knows it's not mine lol. But again, even though it shouldn't be about race, it is.

But, I must point out again, it ultimately doesn't matter to me what our name is, I love this team.

#96 King Taharqa

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:43 AM

3. Changing the name of the team is an awful idea. If you felt so passionately about this issue, you're four or five years too late. Plus, like it or not, Bob Johnson is a part of the Charlotte Bobcats legacy and it should not be destroyed. He helped bring the team here because he believed in our market. His failure to make it thrive does not change that it was an honor for him to deliver us another franchise. I give him great credit for that.


Good post Vagrant. Its dissappointing to see so many people unwilling to give our founder credit or act like we win in spite of him funding this entire franchise simply because his skin has melanin in it. Im proud of the fact I dont hold these ill feelings towards Jerry Richardson and respect the vision he has for his business, even if he is of a different background than me. Im proud that there isnt a group of jaded african americans in Charlotte set out on putting out misinformation about the Panthers in the mass public or demanding they change their name because they feel they are too good to root for a business started by a rich white businessman.

I can proudly say that just because Im black & my driver's license says Charlotte doesnt give me a "sense of entitlement" that all white folks and their businesses in this area must do what I say and make decisions based on what makes me happy. Im not that arrogant, Im not that insecure, Im not that grandiose, and Im not that whiny. Seeing white folks in positions of authority or becoming successful, doesnt make me feel like black people are taking a loss. I dont take it that way. Matter of fact, I just got done riding on Bruton Smith Blvd in Concord, and you know what? It didnt make me angry. I didnt say to myself "man, this street is named after some white guy, IM FURIOUS! IM PISSED OFF! THIS IS DIVISIVE!!" Im actually proud Mr.Smith is shrewd enough to have that kind of pull. Much success to him and his family. Thats the difference between being rational about business and being paranoid and bringing your biases and prejudices into that arena.

#97 Mesmer

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:47 AM

So basically we're the Bobcats because everybody hates everybody. Sweet.

#98 PantherBrew

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:52 AM

Good post Vagrant. Its dissappointing to see so many people unwilling to give our founder credit or act like we win in spite of him funding this entire franchise simply because his skin has melanin in it. Im proud of the fact I dont hold these ill feelings towards Jerry Richardson and respect the vision he has for his business, even if he is of a different background than me. Im proud that there isnt a group of jaded african americans in Charlotte set out on putting out misinformation about the Panthers in the mass public or demanding they change their name because they feel they are too good to root for a business started by a rich white businessman.

I can proudly say that just because Im black & my driver's license says Charlotte doesnt give me a "sense of entitlement" that all white folks and their businesses in this area must do what I say and make decisions based on what makes me happy. Im not that arrogant, Im not that insecure, Im not that grandiose, and Im not that whiny. Seeing white folks in positions of authority or becoming successful, doesnt make me feel like black people are taking a loss. I dont take it that way. Matter of fact, I just got done riding on Bruton Smith Blvd in Concord, and you know what? It didnt make me angry. I didnt say to myself "man, this street is named after some white guy, IM FURIOUS! IM PISSED OFF! THIS IS DIVISIVE!!" Im actually proud Mr.Smith is shrewd enough to have that kind of pull. Much success to him and his family. Thats the difference between being rational about business and being paranoid and bringing your biases and prejudices into that arena.



Now that is some satire.

I thought I was the one being rational about busines and not being paronoid about biases and prejudices.

Haha.

King T, your mind and its neural connections and the way you can argue and your attempts to rationalize things, utterly amaze me.

#99 King Taharqa

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:02 PM

King T, your mind and its neural connections and the way you can argue and your attempts to rationalize things, utterly amaze me.


Says the guy who thinks our logo is a self portrait of Bob Johnson. :rolleyes: Probably think he runs Ohio University too. They should change their name too. ;)

#100 theyhateme45

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:09 PM

... ...

Saying Bob named the team after himself is no different than saying Obama is a muslim or he's not American. Or saying blacks arent smart enough to play QB or point guard. It doesnt matter if isnt true, its the perception thats important. :thumbsup: The ends justifies the means to some folks. And we're suppposed to cater to these people? :frown2:


Actually we are supposed to cater to these opinions. I'm just going to focus on the name change.

1) I believe the people like yourself who support the bobcats now will still continue to support the team thru a name change. The reason is because we don't root for this team solely because of the name, so the bobcats would not lose any fans that are all ready dedicated fans.

Like it or not Bob has left a sour opinion in many residents of the city. This is a fact. Is a because of race? For some people I'm sure that is a motivation. For others it's the way Bob did things or even the Perception of how he did things. It's real and it does matter. We need more fan support to get the team to where we want. This is a business that needs a favorable opinion and support from its local audience. Right now it is not here!!! So it has to be fixed!! The fans don't cater to the team; the team needs to cater to the people. The people who don't support the team now can go about their life and not care about the bobcats... But the bobcats can't afford to not care about the local people, or be perceived that way. Fan support generates $$$, people in the stands, and helps to make charlotte an attractive basketball city for free agents. A name change + continue winning can go a long ways to turning those who were against the bobcats for the bobcats. AND WE NEED THEM.

Yes it would cost $$$ for a name change. But it's my opinion that it would more than pay for itself in the long run.

2) Do I think Bob Johnson named the team after himself.... ummm yea I guess. I just feel I would be naive to think otherwise. However I personally could care less about the origins of the name. I actually like our team colors and our logo so it is what it is.

Like I said this is business, not personal so I am all for whatever is best for the organization going forward. If that means tarnishing Bob Johnsons legacy with the team, so be it. It's business. I am happy he brought the team to Charlotte. Weather I am a fan of him is a mute point. I think he's made mistakes like others. Does he deserve the perceptions he has?? It's arguable, but at this point it's not going to change.

#101 King Taharqa

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:31 PM

Like I said this is business, not personal so I am all for whatever is best for the organization going forward. If that means tarnishing Bob Johnsons legacy with the team, so be it. It's business. I am happy he brought the team to Charlotte. Weather I am a fan of him is a mute point. I think he's made mistakes like others. Does he deserve the perceptions he has?? It's arguable, but at this point it's not going to change.


Hey its a free country, you can believe what you want. Unfortunately, we live in a capitalistic society that was founded by wealthy merchants. Belief alone doesnt create change. As long as folks like David Stern, Bob Johnson, & Michael Jordan have more capital and wealth than you, they will have the final say on business decisions regarding NBA franchises. Bob is as invested in this team as all of us. As is our entire front office. Those folks are proud of their identity and understand our legacy. If a few close minded folks cant accept that, you chalk it up to collateral damage and keep moving. We will add on to what we're doing in Bobcats nation, not destroy and try to start over. I say the same thing everytime, if you Bob Johnson haters want people to take your movement more seriously, do like Bob did and put your chips up and invest into the Bobcats. Bob put his money where his mouth is 7 years ago, when are you guys gonna one up him? Being you care more about the team than him and all? :rolleyes: Put up some cheese towards a "name change" and maybe it'd be perceived as more than just whiny intolerance.

#102 theyhateme45

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:37 PM

Hey its a free country, you can believe what you want. Unfortunately, we live in a capitalistic society that was founded by wealthy merchants. Belief alone doesnt create change. As long as folks like David Stern, Bob Johnson, & Michael Jordan have more capital and wealth than you, they will have the final say on business decisions regarding NBA franchises. Bob is as invested in this team as all of us. As is our entire front office. Those folks are proud of their identity and understand our legacy. If a few close minded folks cant accept that, you chalk it up to collateral damage and keep moving. We will add on to what we're doing in Bobcats nation, not destroy and try to start over. I say the same thing everytime, if you Bob Johnson haters want people to take your movement more seriously, do like Bob did and put your chips up and invest into the Bobcats. Bob put his money where his mouth is 7 years ago, when are you guys gonna one up him? Being you care more about the team than him and all? :rolleyes: Put up some cheese towards a "name change" and maybe it'd be perceived as more than just whiny intolerance.


Nevermind... as that wasn't the tone of my post

#103 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:43 PM

Weren't the Hornets named after George Shinn's elementary school team?

I hated that name from the first day they announced it. I'd rather fight a Hornet than a Bobcat any day.

#104 PantherBrew

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:30 PM

Nevermind... as that wasn't the tone of my post


Thats KT's argument style, he builds up fake arguments of the oppisition and then argue makes points against them.

For those who don't know, it is called a straw man argument. This is when someone takes points from the original statement and substitutes points that appear to be similar, but are actually quite different. And then argues against the points that he substituted.

It would be more effective if it wasn't so over the top and predictable.

#105 King Taharqa

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:40 PM

Thats KT's argument style, he builds up fake arguments of the oppisition and then argue makes points against them.

For those who don't know, it is called a straw man argument. This is when someone takes points from the original statement and substitutes points that appear to be similar, but are actually quite different. And then argues against the points that he substituted.

It would be more effective if it wasn't so over the top and predictable.


Why wont you put any money towards the name change cause BruceBrewski? You are the OP. You obviously are very passionate about it. You posted a logo idea and a name. If you think there's alot of Bobcats fans out there and potential fans who are down and feel the same way, why not put your money together towards our Bobcats? Endowments are how you get your name placed on things in this town. :yesnod:


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