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Tanking the season

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So here we have folks, buoyed on by national writers who probably couldn't name ten players on the Panthers roster if they were asked, suggesting that the Panthers are tanking this season so that they can start over next year.

The idea is ludicrous.

As has been mentioned, John Fox needs to win this season to save his job (or get a different one). Some suggest it's over his head, but nowhere has he given the slightest indication that he isn't on board with the current plan. And really, do you honestly think Jerry Richardson would throw a whole season down the toilet just to get rid of a coach he could just fire if he so desired? :nonod:

But set that aside for now. Let's look at the decisions that have been made individually.


[B]Not franchising Julius Peppers:[/B] Done so as not to tie up a boatload of money inone player who didn't want to be here anyway

[B]Releasing Jake Delhomme[/B]: Does anyone really want to argue this decision had no merit? Delhomme was in obvious decline, had a high salary and could have been the center of locker room contention (on his behalf).

[B]Releasing Ma'ake Kemoeatu:[/B] There was speculation from loads of people that this would happen due to age/salary/injury. Should come as a surprise to no one.

[B]Releasing Na'il Diggs:[/B] The team had younger, cheaper options in Dan Connor and James Anderson step up in the late season, so again it made sense.

[B]Releasing Damione Lewis:[/B] This is one I somewhat disagreed with, but given that he was a rotational player in a starter's role and making starter's money, it can be justified.

[B]Releasing Landon Johnson:[/B] Come on :rolleyes:

[B]Releasing Brad Hoover:[/B] Did it hurt to see Hoover go? Sure, but he's been in decline for a while now. Back problems can do a lot of players in and can be especially tough for a fullback. Yes, we'll miss him, but as much as I hate to say it, the move made sense if you look at it from a business standpoint.


So looking at each one, all the decisions made this offseason can be justified from a football/business standpoint. Each of them would have just made just as much sense any other year, given the same set of circumstances in each individual situation. Throw in that some of them probably [I]would have[/I] already been made in prior years had not cap constraints prevented it.

And seriously, looking at this list, outside of perhaps Peppers, is there really anybody on here that you can look at in their current condition and say with any credibility "boy it sure will be a lot tougher to win without them"?

Please :nonod:

If we're just tanking and don't care about winning, why are guys like Steve Smith and Chris Harris still here? they're older,and they each have some trade value. If you're just rebuilding, why not toss them too? Or for that matter, why re-sign a guy like Tyler Brayton? And why did you bother picking up good special teamers (I mean, outside of the fact that the team needed players like that, because after all we're not interested in winning).

"What about the lack of free agent activity?" you ask. To which I ask, "Have you ever watched a Panthers offseason before?" If you think this is unusual, you've probably not been paying attention.

But if you still want to buy into this line of thinking, go ahead.

While you're at it, commiserate with the Eagle fans, because apparently their owner has decided to tank the season too :rolleyes:
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[IMG]http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3374/tread.gif[/IMG]

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[quote name='Mr. Scot']So here we have folks, buoyed on by national writers who probably couldn't name ten players on the Panthers roster if they were asked, suggesting that the Panthers are tanking this season.

The idea is ludicrous.

As has been mentioned, John Fox needs to win this season to save his job (or get a different one). Some suggest it's over his head, but nowhere has he given the slightest indication that he isn't on board with the current plan. And really, do you honestly think Jerry Richardson would throw a whole season down the toilet just to get rid of a coach he could just fire if he so desired? :nonod:

But set that aside for now. Let's look at the decisions that have been made individually.


[B]Not franchising Julius Peppers:[/B] Done so as not to tie up a boatload of money inone player who didn't want to be here anyway

[B]Releasing Jake Delhomme[/B]: Does anyone really want to argue this decision had no merit? Delhomme was in obvious decline, had a high salary and could have been the center of locker room contention (on his behalf).

[B]Releasing Ma'ake Kemoeatu:[/B] There was speculation from loads of people that this would happen due to age/salary/injury. Should come as a surprise to no one.

[B]Releasing Na'il Diggs:[/B] The team had younger, cheaper options in Dan Connor and James Anderson step up in the late season, so again it made sense.

[B]Releasing Damione Lewis:[/B] This is one I somewhat disagreed with, but given that he was a rotational player in a starter's role and making starter's money, it can be justified.

[B]Releasing Landon Johnson:[/B] Come on :rolleyes:

[B]Releasing Brad Hoover:[/B] Did it hurt to see Hoover go? Sure, but he's been in decline for a while now. Back problems can do a lot of players in and can be especially tough for a fullback. Yes, we'll miss him, but as much as I hate to say it, the move made sense if you look at it from a business standpoint.


So looking at each one, all the decisions made this offseason can be justified from a football/business standpoint. Each of them would have just made just as much sense any other year, given the same set of circumstances in each individual situation. Throw in that some of them probably [I]would have[/I] already been made in prior years had not cap constraints prevented it.

And seriously, looking at this list, outside of perhaps Peppers, is there really anybody on here that you can look at in their current condition and say "boy it sure will be tough to win without them"?

Please :nonod:

"What about the lack of free agent activity?" you ask. To which I ask, "Have you ever watched a Panthers offseason before?" If you think this is unusual, you've probably not been paying attention.

But if you still want to buy into this line of thinking, go ahead.

While you're at it, commiserate with the Eagle fans, because apparently their owner has decided to tank the season too :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Call it whatever you want.....winning in 2010 is not the #1 goal for Carolina and is not what the moves this offseason will be about. Winning in 2009 was the main goal prior to that season. Spin or use whatever words you want....but that is pretty much a fact.

Yeah, the Panthers normally aren't very active....that is b/c they normally don't send there entire DL packing....and are just left looking for one or two fillers.

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Panthers Vs Eagles two teams adding through subtraction... NFC championship rematch maybe?

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like I said I dont think we are "tanking" this season. I think we are focused on 2011 more than 2010 right now.. these moves are coming from the top

We have young players that could be great or they could be bust.We will find out this year.but with all this youth I think it puts a limit on how much success we can have.

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[quote name='CRA']Call it whatever you want.....winning in 2010 is not the #1 goal for Carolina and is not what the moves this offseason will be about. Winning in 2009 was the main goal prior to that season. Spin or use whatever words you want....but that is pretty much a fact.[/QUOTE]

wow kids let's break down CRA's elite argument here

1. disregard all the evidence presented (call it whatever you want)
2. state your opinion without any evidence or support
3. declare your opinion a fact
4. wait for white noise shit posters to drown out anyone who would disagree with you
5. drink deeply from a 40 oz can of Ballz and stroke your neck beard
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[quote name='CRA']Call it whatever you want.....winning in 2010 is not the #1 goal for Carolina and is not what the moves this offseason will be about. Winning in 2009 was the main goal prior to that season. Spin or use whatever words you want....but that is pretty much a fact.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Obviously, they released Jake Delhomme because they aren't interested in winning :rolleyes:

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[quote name='CRA']Call it whatever you want.....winning in 2010 is not the #1 goal for Carolina and is not what the moves this offseason will be about. Winning in 2009 was the main goal prior to that season. Spin or use whatever words you want....but that is pretty much a fact.[/QUOTE]

Those moves made were not only about winning this year but for years to come.If we wanted to win right away and not care about the future i'm sure we could have made a play for mcnabb and others but thats not the plan. Its hard to gauge whether 100% of the moves were correct moves, but none of them are blatantly wrong. I like what the team has done overall so far and I look foward to what I actually consider an exciting draft, because were only a couple pieces away from being a playoff team on paper.

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[quote name='Mr. Scot']Yep. Obviously, they released Jake Delhomme because they aren't interested in winning :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

lol, that is exactly the kind of spin I was referring to...... they released Jake b/c he cost them a season and is done.

They are rebuidling.....even the players acknowledge that. Therefore, the whole arguement about winning is the #1 goal like in past Fox seasons is absurd.

You list why we got rid of guys like Kemo, Lewis, Pep, etc. But when you just insert backups and scrubs signed the year prior....that isn't making the team better in 2010. That certainly isn't a DL John Fox can play w/.

Carolina is looking past 2010 and that is the right thing to do.

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the panthers definitely aren't interested in winning... you know... that thing they get paid to do?!?!?! :skep:

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[quote name='Fiz']wow kids let's break down CRA's elite argument here

1. disregard all the evidence presented (call it whatever you want)
2. state your opinion without any evidence or support
3. declare your opinion a fact
4. wait for white noise shit posters to drown out anyone who would disagree with you
5. drink deeply from a 40 oz can of Ballz and stroke your neck beard[/QUOTE]

wow "you must spread rep around before giving it to Fiz again" rep rep rep rep

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[quote name='panther4life']Those moves made were not only about winning this year but for years to come.If we wanted to win right away and not care about the future i'm sure we could have made a play for mcnabb and others but thats not the plan. Its hard to gauge whether 100% of the moves were correct moves, but none of them are blatantly wrong. I like what the team has done overall so far and I look foward to what I actually consider an exciting draft, because were only a couple pieces away from being a playoff team on paper.[/QUOTE]


these moves were about getting ready to win post Fox......Fox knows it.

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[quote name='CRA']Call it whatever you want.....winning in 2010 is not the #1 goal for Carolina and is not what the moves this offseason will be about. Winning in 2009 was the main goal prior to that season. Spin or use whatever words you want....but that is pretty much a fact.

Yeah, the Panthers normally aren't very active....that is b/c they normally don't send there entire DL packing....and are just left looking for one or two fillers.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they think that the guys we have are pretty good and think they can win with them while at the same time preparing for a lockout. IDT we really downgraded at any position other than DE (and we really didn't have an option with that one).

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[quote name='CRA']these moves were about getting ready to win post Fox......Fox knows it.[/QUOTE]

fucking get out
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[quote name='Fiz']wow kids let's break down CRA's elite argument here

1. disregard all the evidence presented (call it whatever you want)
2. state your opinion without any evidence or support
3. declare your opinion a fact
4. wait for white noise shit posters to drown out anyone who would disagree with you
5. drink deeply from a 40 oz can of Ballz and stroke your neck beard[/QUOTE]

Brilliant

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[quote name='CRA']these moves were about getting ready to win post Fox......Fox knows it.[/QUOTE]

Fox would havew left already of that was the case. The bucs last year were an example of rebuilding. Let me ask you this, if the panthers trade up again the draft this year would you still fell the same??

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you guys are missing a huge part of the picture... JR and the rest of the organization hate publicly stating any kind of information towards contract extensions, especially when it comes to Hurney and Fox. IMO, JR wants Fox to put his younger guys on the field this year so they can get some experience, forget about trading next year's 1st round pick away and pick up what you can in this year's draft... sign fox and hurney to their extensions after the CBA deal goes down, then go full speed in next year's draft with trades and all kinds of craziness.

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[quote name='unicar15']Maybe they think that the guys we have are pretty good and think they can win with them while at the same time preparing for an uncapped year. IDT we really downgraded at any position other than DE (and we really didn't have an option with that one).[/QUOTE]
Not like it's the first time they've gone into a season expecting young guys to step up.

When they said "Travelle Wharton is our left tackle" pretty much nobody believed it. Everyone assumed we were going to get a veteran or draft a left tackle, but they didn't.

Wharton obviously is now at his better spot, but that's not the point. The point is that the whole "they didn't do what [I][B]I[/B][/I] think they should, so they [B][I]must not care[/I][/B]" idea is just plain silly.

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[quote name='CRA']these moves were about getting ready to win post Fox......Fox knows it.[/QUOTE]
And he's just going to sign on and let it derail his career without saying a word?

You seriously believe that?

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[quote name='Mr. Scot']When they said "Travelle Wharton is our left tackle" [/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://blog.jkbutcher.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/exploding-head-2.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote name='panther4life']Fox would havew left already of that was the case. The bucs last year were an example of rebuilding. Let me ask you this, if the panthers trade up again the draft this year would you still fell the same??[/QUOTE]

left and gone where? You better believe if a decent spot opened up Fox would have bailed when they told him they weren't going to fire him.

Panthers won't trade up into the 1st round this year. It makes no sense when you have a lame duck coach who is going to be gone. They won't put the new coach in the position...and JR is gonna have the cash to let that coach come in and try to win right away.

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[quote name='Mr. Scot']And he's just going to sign on and let it derail his career without saying a word?

You seriously believe that?[/QUOTE]

What exactly do you think he would say if it were happening to him? I'm not convinced one way or the other. He might be just willing to take the high road and if he has any sucess this year he can scream to the rooftops of how ownership was digging a hole under him and he still did well. Like the media did that year all those guys went on IR and we still almost made the playoffs how much credit he got for that coaching job. It'd look pretty good on a resume to turn what most perceive the talent on this team to win 8 or 9 games.

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[quote name='CRA']left and gone where? You better believe if a decent spot opened up Fox would have bailed when they told him they weren't going to fire him.

Panthers won't trade up into the 1st round this year. It makes no sense when you have a lame duck coach who is going to be gone. They won't put the new coach in the position...and JR is gonna have the cash to let that coach come in and try to win right away.[/QUOTE]

John Fox may very well being on the hot seat but its far from a forgone conclusion that he'll be fired.

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[quote name='jramsey4']What exactly do you think he would say if it were happening to him? I'm not convinced one way or the other. He might be just willing to take the high road and if he has any sucess this year he can scream to the rooftops of how ownership was digging a hole under him and he still did well. Like the media did that year all those guys went on IR and we still almost made the playoffs how much credit he got for that coaching job. It'd look pretty good on a resume to turn what most perceive the talent on this team to win 8 or 9 wins.[/QUOTE]

Foxy knows if he sticks it out this year....gets to about 7-9 w/ this roster....he will have no problem finding a job after the lockout. It would make no sense for Foxy to just leave b/c he knows Carolina isn't going to bring him back after this season. There weren't any jobs for him this offseason to go get.

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[QUOTE]As has been mentioned, John Fox needs to win this season to save his job (or get a different one). Some suggest it's over his head, but nowhere has he given the slightest indication that he isn't on board with the current plan. And really, do you honestly think Jerry Richardson would throw a whole season down the toilet just to get rid of a coach he could just fire if he so desired? [/QUOTE]
Is Fox just gonna quit? If he quits, he voids his contract. Maybe the coach JR wants said he wants to see how the lockout goes.

As far as the players you listed....

Peppers- yes, he was not worth franchising again. But it's still up in the air as to how hard they tried to resign him to a long term contract. And before it gets said, "league sources tell me" is gossip. Facts are facts. Remember Phillip Rivers contract dispute? The team owner and GM said he could make a ton of bonuses- the small print said he had to win the next 5 Super Bowls to do so. It's just a case of "he said, she said", and it's over.

Jake- nobody questions the fact that he shouldn't be the starter. Let Moore play, if we want to "get younger". The fact that his contract was written with no escape clause is inexcusable, and the fact that whoever came up with that contract still has a job is even more inexcusable. He was cut so he could maybe land a starters job somewhere else, and we eat 12 million dollars. So, any time the "save money, smart business, etc" comes up, look back at the money we're paying Jake to play in Cleveland.

Hoover- wasn't costing that much, and Fiammetta isn't very good. The only hope we have is if Rosario can play more of an H-back, and he can block.

[QUOTE]While you're at it, commiserate with the Eagle fans, because apparently their owner has decided to tank the season too [/QUOTE]
No. They are at least picking up draft picks by trading players. Our team will be filled with "compensatory picks and UFAs".

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