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How to sign your core group and take advantage of the uncapped year


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#1 panthers55

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:20 PM

Much has been made how we couldn't sign our young players to extensions even if we wanted to because there is a 30% rule in effect saying you can't pay a player in 2010 more than a 30% increase over what you paid them in 2009. Obviously they should be taking lessons from Bruce Allen for the Redskins. You want to know what their effective salary is for 2010- that would be $170 million. In comparison the baseline salary cap for 2009 was $128 million and some estimates have us at around $100 million including the 10 million dead cap space that is taken up by Jake. So how did they give Haynesworth 21 milion and Hall 15 million and still do it under the 30% rule and not be prorated into future years? They renegotiated the contracts this March and turned the option bonuses to signing bonuses which circumvented the 30% rule. But they did something else. In Haynesworth contract they added a voidable clause which allowed Haynesworth to pay back 26 million of his signing bonus and void his contract in years 2011-2014. Since the control of the voiding mechanism is within the players control, then all of the signing bonus counts this year and doesn't extend throughout the rest of the contract. So they take a hit of 26 million this year but have relatively small salaries for the next 3 years. The same with Hall.

Sure there may be risks depending on what the CBA says or doesn't allow but this is one example of a team using the uncapped year to their distinct advantage. Something we are not doing at all. Hurney may need to take some lessons from Allen who has always been a real master of the cap. It is an interesting article for those nerds like me that are into capology.

http://footballoutsi...g-uncapped-year

#2 bleys

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:28 PM

signing some of our core players and taking a big hit without the cap, if possible, would be a major advantage right about now...

#3 Wither

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 04:45 PM

Better be signing them to 5-7 year deals in case of a lockout (as in, a 3 year deal wouldn't be worth it because... well, there is a wasted year in there).

#4 Delhommey

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:02 PM

Deangelo Hall is a core player.

Keep saying that to yourself till it starts to make sense.

#5 panthers55

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:20 PM

Deangelo Hall is a core player.

Keep saying that to yourself till it starts to make sense.


You miss the point. Hall had a big salary and represented a significant cap hit for a numbers of year which Allen fixed by making everything count this year through big signing bonuses and voidable clauses. When the cap is reinstated they willl be way ahead of teams like us who are playing for the short term and trying to save money now despite the fact that a lockout is not likely unless owners like Richardson demand it. Allen is playing for the longterm and spending money now to avoid big cap hits down the road. Hurney could do the same with our core players. It doesn't matter if it is Haynesworth, Hall or someone else. There are many strategies a great capologist can use to manipulate the cap. Hurney could do the same kind of thing as Allen if he has the authority to do it. Instead we are going on the cheap and will have more players to resign next year and big signing bonuses and cap hits if it is reinstated than if we resigned guys like Moore, Williams, and Davis this year. Waiting makes it that much harder to keep everyone of our core group together. And it is all avoidable. I hope Hunrey can convince Jerry to loosen up the tight clutch on the pursestrings and think of the longterm after the supposed lockout.

Edited by panthers55, 15 April 2010 - 11:27 PM.


#6 bleys

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:24 PM

seems that if the guy with all the inside information knew a lockout was on the horizon, he would know to take advantage of no cap and secure the future...

#7 Delhommey

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:29 PM

So Hurney taking care of bad contracts in a uncapped year (Mainly cutting Delhomme and to a lesser extent Kemo) and releasing or not resigning on the decline vets (Diggs, Lewis, Moose, etc) is stoopid.

On the other hand Allen taking care of bad contracts in an uncapped year (Haynesworth and Hall) and releasing or not resigning on the decline vets (Cartwright, Collins, Smoot, Betts, etc) is pure genius.

Gotcha.

#8 panthers55

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:32 PM

seems that if the guy with all the inside information knew a lockout was on the horizon, he would know to take advantage of no cap and secure the future...

Unless you were trying to avoid paying any salaries to anyone next year and you believe there will be no football. Then you would be operating exactly as Richardson is doing. If he thought the deal would get done or that the lockout wouldn't extend beyond training camp for example you would be operating as if it were business as usual. These moves aren't about the long term future but the next 18 months only.

#9 KillerKat

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:36 PM

How are our moves only about the next 18 months when we are going with younger and equal or better talent? Doesn't that usually mean you're trying to set yourself up for long term success? Whatever. Go ahead and spin anything you want just so you can shed a negative light on the Panthers because they hurt your feelings cuting some of your favorite vets.

#10 carolinanimal

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:40 PM

How are our moves only about the next 18 months when we are going with younger and equal or better talent? Doesn't that usually mean you're trying to set yourself up for long term success? Whatever. Go ahead and spin anything you want just so you can shed a negative light on the Panthers because they hurt your feelings cuting some of your favorite vets.


i agree with the younger part, but when did they get better or even equal? was it when they came of ir or riding the bench on this team and others?

#11 Delhommey

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:43 PM

Which "core group" of players have the Redskins wrapped up with all this trickery, btw?

You must be talking about those genius contracts they handed out to Willie Parker and Larry Johnson! These guys are light years ahead of us!

#12 panthers55

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:46 PM

So Hurney taking care of bad contracts in a uncapped year (Mainly cutting Delhomme and to a lesser extent Kemo) and releasing or not resigning on the decline vets (Diggs, Lewis, Moose, etc) is stoopid.

On the other hand Allen taking care of bad contracts in an uncapped year (Haynesworth and Hall) and releasing or not resigning on the decline vets (Cartwright, Collins, Smoot, Betts, etc) is pure genius.

Gotcha.


You can call Hall a bad contract but remember that Allen didn't do the deal he is just cleaning up the mess by knowing the cap better than anyone. Haynesworth is not a bad contract and making all the signing bonus count this year is a stroke of genius. Sure Haynesworth could dissapoint but he is still rated as one of the best in the league and 40 million for 4 years is pretty much the going rate for an all pro DT. And again he didn't broker that deal. He did release alot of veterans and prior mistakes cleaning things up.
In many ways the two teams are alike as far as releasing lots of veterans and changing things up. The difference is that Washington is setting itself up for the future using the uncapped year to their advantage and we are not because we are afraid to spend money.

But the fact remains that the whole discussion of releasing veterans is a red herring and not germaine to the topic. We are discussing how the uncapped year can be used to resign your core guys by extending them now and taking the cap hit in the present year to set yourself up for the future. What you brought up is over and done with. This issue is whether we will use the cap to lock up some players like Moore, Williams, and Davis or put it off and be worse off next year if a cap is reinstated. No one said Hurney was stoopid for releasing veterans, at least not in this thread. Lets stick to the topic.

#13 bleys

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:46 PM

So Hurney taking care of bad contracts in a uncapped year (Mainly cutting Delhomme and to a lesser extent Kemo) and releasing or not resigning on the decline vets (Diggs, Lewis, Moose, etc) is stoopid.

On the other hand Allen taking care of bad contracts in an uncapped year (Haynesworth and Hall) and releasing or not resigning on the decline vets (Cartwright, Collins, Smoot, Betts, etc) is pure genius.

Gotcha.


like he tried to point out the 2nd time, the names aren't his point... the act of taking the cap hit in an uncapped year is..

Hall has been the worst CB in the league for years.. he's a joke. we all can agree that anyone who finds value in Hall is a fool.

in other words, if we had Kalil, Beason, Davis, DWill, Stewart, whoever (mix and match however you want.. find a way to include them all or as many as you can) and take a huge "cap hit" in an uncapped year.. we then can struggle less in staying under the cap when the new CBA comes out...

fact is Richardson is still going to have to fork over the cash.. doesn't matter if he forks it over in one big year and tries to reduce our cap hit in the next few years or we take a huge cap hit when the new CBA is set in place and he spreads it out over a few more years..

yes, spreading money out as a business is much better.. but in the NFL, it might make more sense to get it out of the way and stay ahead of all other NFL teams..

forget about Hall, Haynesworth, whoever else.. the street names aren't important, but the direction that could lead to reducing our cap when the new CBA is set in place..


all in theory anyhow.. never-the-less, it makes sense.

Edited by bleys, 15 April 2010 - 11:50 PM.


#14 KillerKat

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:46 PM

i agree with the younger part, but when did they get better or even equal? was it when they came of ir or riding the bench on this team and others?


Its when Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler showed they could penetrate through the middle in their limited time they played. Unlike Lewis and Kemo. Its when Brown and Johnson have shown they have the ability to create pressure in their limited time. Its when Anderson proved he can play all 3 LB positions and is solid wherever you put him. Its when Jarrett finally shined when a competant QB was at the helm. He may not be a every down receiver, but he's proved that he can make clutch 3rd down catches when needed. Its when Mackenzy proved we couldnt miss a beat when he came in to start. Its when Sutton showed he has the ability to play not only HB but FB as well. We also drafted the best FB in the draft last year and he will show us why this year.

#15 carolinanimal

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:56 PM

Its when Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler showed they could penetrate through the middle in their limited time they played. Unlike Lewis and Kemo. Its when Brown and Johnson have shown they have the ability to create pressure in their limited time. Its when Anderson proved he can play all 3 LB positions and is solid wherever you put him. Its when Jarrett finally shined when a competant QB was at the helm. He may not be a every down receiver, but he's proved that he can make clutch 3rd down catches when needed. Its when Mackenzy proved we couldnt miss a beat when he came in to start. Its when Sutton showed he has the ability to play not only HB but FB as well. We also drafted the best FB in the draft last year and he will show us why this year.


so you are saying the collective 3 or 4 games these guys played is better than the 20 or so YEARS of combined experience in the nfl for the other guys?? how did they stay in the nfl so long if they suck so bad they are worse than a 2nd stringer coming of ir?
most of the guys you talk about dont even have stat lines for last year. How are you quantifying how good they are? how are you projecting how good they will be? as of right now until they prove it ON THE FIELD we dont know how they will do. we can all be optomistic and hope they are good but we dont know. none of they have played much let alone played TOGETHER as a unit.


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