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Setting up to defend the pass


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#61 SorthNarolina

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 04:14 AM

I guess you must have forgotten that the Saints were 6th in rushing last year, and Atlanta was 15th. To win in this division you have to be good against the run and the pass. Given that we were 4-2 in the division last year with Harris, how are we going to be better without him if we end up 28th against the run this year.

And as for Vick- he ran against us all day which would argue for better run defense not pass defense.

Maybe you should try again........


We'll if we end 28th then obviously we would be worse but I don't see that happening.

I don't see how you thought I was talking about pass defense with Vick. I was talking about how much effort we put into stopping him from destroying us always scrambling around. 2002 was embarrassing. Our invincible D-line was powerless against him.

T. Davis didn't really start to show his stuff until he was sent to spy Vick all day. You can see what the coaches had in mind when they drafted him. We used a little 5 man fronts as well. The coaching staff really made stopping Vick a priority.

It's kind of funny that you mentioned passing though because I remember we were about the only team he could pass on early in his career. He was just plain poison.

Have you forgotten how bad the defensive tackle position was last year? It was destroyed by injuries. That is what made the run defense so poor. Look at the 2008 giants game for example, as soon as Kemo went down it was over. We totally neglected the position for two years.

Chris Harris stopped a lot of running plays at the LOS and it was his best quality. But the loss of Harris is nothing compared to losing 3 defensive tackles to injuries. We had guys off the street starting. With Harris we have a 2nd rounder to take his place. Or maybe Godfrey moves over.

Also what have you seen of Sherod Martin to think he wont be successful?The jury is still out but he played very well in his limited opportunities.

#62 klumme

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 05:36 AM

How many missed tackles did Harris had last year??

The answer to that is 11. And that was most in our secondary last year.

Other notes: He was the S who allowed most rec. most yards and most TD´s. He was also the S who allowed most YAC and the one with the highest completions % against him.

He was not that great of a player. He was a hardhitter and he was a tough SOB. And he WAS a leader but after all his twitter shot this offseason I have a hard time seeing him as a leader.

If you take the leader out of him he is not much of an asset. And he took the leader out of himself this offseason.

#63 panthers55

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:16 AM

How many missed tackles did Harris had last year??

The answer to that is 11. And that was most in our secondary last year.

Other notes: He was the S who allowed most rec. most yards and most TD´s. He was also the S who allowed most YAC and the one with the highest completions % against him.

He was not that great of a player. He was a hardhitter and he was a tough SOB. And he WAS a leader but after all his twitter shot this offseason I have a hard time seeing him as a leader.

If you take the leader out of him he is not much of an asset. And he took the leader out of himself this offseason.


where did you get the stats for all that? I have a hard time finding some of that information when I need it??

#64 panthers55

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:22 AM

We'll if we end 28th then obviously we would be worse but I don't see that happening.

I don't see how you thought I was talking about pass defense with Vick. I was talking about how much effort we put into stopping him from destroying us always scrambling around. 2002 was embarrassing. Our invincible D-line was powerless against him.

T. Davis didn't really start to show his stuff until he was sent to spy Vick all day. You can see what the coaches had in mind when they drafted him. We used a little 5 man fronts as well. The coaching staff really made stopping Vick a priority.

It's kind of funny that you mentioned passing though because I remember we were about the only team he could pass on early in his career. He was just plain poison.

Have you forgotten how bad the defensive tackle position was last year? It was destroyed by injuries. That is what made the run defense so poor. Look at the 2008 giants game for example, as soon as Kemo went down it was over. We totally neglected the position for two years.

Chris Harris stopped a lot of running plays at the LOS and it was his best quality. But the loss of Harris is nothing compared to losing 3 defensive tackles to injuries. We had guys off the street starting. With Harris we have a 2nd rounder to take his place. Or maybe Godfrey moves over.

Also what have you seen of Sherod Martin to think he wont be successful?The jury is still out but he played very well in his limited opportunities.


No I didn't forget gow bad the defensive tackle position was last year. The fact that we are going to be even worse this year with guys with no experience is very concerning. And with no edge pressure quarterbacks will have all day to pick us apart like they did in 2007. The point is that losing Harris will hurt the run defense which was not going to be very good to begin with.

As for what I think makes me think Martin won't be successful. Nothing at this point. But that is not the issue. The question is whether Godfrey who is likely to replace Harris will be better this year. And of that I have significant concerns.

Edited by panthers55, 28 April 2010 - 07:49 AM.


#65 panthers55

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:26 AM

It's not their play, but moreso how they began to use the safeties.. They flip flopped them a lot, so in a sense, Meeks wants them to know both positions aka be athletic at both positions at safety. Remember, Chris Harris was a Trgovac defense hire, this is Meeks' defense now.


Flip flopped freesafety and strong safety? I really would have to see that. I can't recall Harris play free safety unless it due to necessity or Harris making up for Godfrey being caught out of position. Harris was too poor in coverage for us to rely him as free safety.

#66 CLTPanther

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:38 AM

We were fourth in the NFL against the pass and we were 22nd against the run. So we get rid of one of our best run defenders in the secondary because it is more important to get better against the pass than it is to get better against the run.

Yeah that makes a bunch of sense.

:thumbsup:


The only reason we ranked so high against the pass is because our opponents could run it on us all day. Stop quoting misguided stats.

#67 CatMan72

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:43 AM

Yup, the whole NFL is headed in this direction... see Charles Davis's comment a few weeks back about how NFL teams are looking for 4 corners to play in the secondary.

#68 panthers55

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:05 AM

The only reason we ranked so high against the pass is because our opponents could run it on us all day. Stop quoting misguided stats.


As the year progressed we got better against the run although not great. But our pass defense stayed consistent. If teams couldn't run as much they would have thrown more and our pass defense would have taken a beating and it didn't.

And on any team there is always something you give up. Because Minnesota was tops on run defense, teams passed the ball more out of necessity. So is it true that Minnesota's run defense only looked good because the pass defense was so poor or did teams pass the ball because they couldn't run it? The same logic applies to us.

#69 panthers55

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:07 AM

Yup, the whole NFL is headed in this direction... see Charles Davis's comment a few weeks back about how NFL teams are looking for 4 corners to play in the secondary.


And the result will be that more teams will be able to run the ball effectively. Since we are not good against the run already it won't necessarily be to our advantage unless we find corners who can play tough against the run as well.

#70 CatMan72

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:20 AM

And the result will be that more teams will be able to run the ball effectively. Since we are not good against the run already it won't necessarily be to our advantage unless we find corners who can play tough against the run as well.


When the pendulum swings back towards the running game then we'll have to adjust again, but right now we're living in the age of the pass-first offense.

The road to the NFC South division championship goes through N.O. so we have to configure our defense to beat them.

#71 CRA

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:26 AM

When the pendulum swings back towards the running game then we'll have to adjust again, but right now we're living in the age of the pass-first offense.

The road to the NFC South division championship goes through N.O. so we have to configure our defense to beat them.


pretty sure Fox's old forumulas worked pretty well against N.O.......doesn't matter what Carolina has in the secondary, it matters what they have on the front 4.

#72 panthers55

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:01 AM

When the pendulum swings back towards the running game then we'll have to adjust again, but right now we're living in the age of the pass-first offense.

The road to the NFC South division championship goes through N.O. so we have to configure our defense to beat them.


And the reality is that New Orleans was 6th in rushing last year. Atlanta was down at 15th but usually is in the top 10 as well. So we have to stop the run and pass to win the South. Going from 4th to 3rd against the pass won't mean squat if we stay in the low 20s against the run. Why is this so hard for you to understand??

Even last year we were 4-2 in the division but finished only 8-8 because we were swept by the AFC East. The last time the divisional record determined the NFC South Championship was way back in 2005. If you know anything about us at all you know that we typically do well in the division. Our problem is outside the division usually against a division like the NFC East or AFC East.