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25 Questions to Ask Anyone Delusional Enough to Believe Economic Recovery is Real


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#1 venom

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:13 PM

25 Questions To Ask Anyone Who Is Delusional Enough To Believe That This Economic Recovery Is Real


If you listen to the mainstream media long enough, you just might be tempted to believe that the United States has emerged from the recession and is now in the middle of a full-fledged economic recovery. In fact, according to Obama administration officials, the great American economic machine has roared back to life, stronger and more vibrant than ever before. But is that really the case? Of course not. You would have to be delusional to believe that. What did happen was that all of the stimulus packages and government spending and new debt that Obama and the U.S. Congress pumped into the economy bought us a little bit of time. But they have also made our long-term economic problems far worse. The reality is that the U.S. cannot keep supporting an economy on an ocean of red ink forever. At some point the charade is going to come crashing down.

And GDP is not a really good measure of the economic health of a nation. For example, if you would have looked at the growth of GDP in the Weimar republic in the early 1930s, you may have been tempted to think that the German economy was really thriving. German citizens were spending increasingly massive amounts of money. But of course that money was becoming increasingly worthless at the same time as hyperinflation spiralled out of control.

Well, today the purchasing power of our dollar is rapidly eroding as the price of food and other necessities continues to increase. So just because Americans are spending a little bit more money than before really doesn't mean much of anything. As you will see below, there are a whole bunch of other signs that the U.S. economy is in very, very serious trouble.

Any "recovery" that the U.S. economy is experiencing is illusory and will be quite temporary. The entire financial system of the United States is falling apart, and the powers that be can try to patch it up and prop it up for a while, but in the end this thing is going to come crashing down.

But as obvious as that may seem to most of us, there are still quite a few people out there that are absolutely convinced that the U.S. economy will fully recover and will soon be stronger than ever.

So the following are 25 questions to ask anyone who is delusional enough to believe that this economic recovery is real....

#1) In what universe is an economy with 39.68 million Americans on food stamps considered to be a healthy, recovering economy? In fact, the U.S. Department of Agriculture forecasts that enrollment in the food stamp program will exceed 43 million Americans in 2011. Is a rapidly increasing number of Americans on food stamps a good sign or a bad sign for the economy?

#2) According to RealtyTrac, foreclosure filings were reported on 367,056 properties in the month of March. This was an increase of almost 19 percent from February, and it was the highest monthly total since RealtyTrac began issuing its report back in January 2005. So can you please explain again how the U.S. real estate market is getting better?

#3) The Mortgage Bankers Association just announced that more than 10 percent of U.S. homeowners with a mortgage had missed at least one payment in the January-March period. That was a record high and up from 9.1 percent a year ago. Do you think that is an indication that the U.S. housing market is recovering?

#4) How can the U.S. real estate market be considered healthy when, for the first time in modern history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together?

#5) With the U.S. Congress planning to quadruple oil taxes, what do you think that is going to do to the price of gasoline in the United States and how do you think that will affect the U.S. economy?

#6) Do you think that it is a good sign that Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor of the state of California, says that "terrible cuts" are urgently needed in order to avoid a complete financial disaster in his state?

#7) But it just isn't California that is in trouble. Dozens of U.S. states are in such bad financial shape that they are getting ready for their biggest budget cuts in decades. What do you think all of those budget cuts will do to the economy?

#8) In March, the U.S. trade deficit widened to its highest level since December 2008. Month after month after month we buy much more from the rest of the world than they buy from us. Wealth is draining out of the United States at an unprecedented rate. So is the fact that the gigantic U.S. trade deficit is actually getting bigger a good sign or a bad sign for the U.S. economy?

#9) Considering the fact that the U.S. government is projected to have a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit in 2010, and considering the fact that if you went out and spent one dollar every single second it would take you more than 31,000 years to spend a trillion dollars, how can anyone in their right mind claim that the U.S. economy is getting healthier when we are getting into so much debt?

#10) The U.S. Treasury Department recently announced that the U.S. government suffered a wider-than-expected budget deficit of 82.69 billion dollars in April. So is the fact that the red ink of the U.S. government is actually worse than projected a good sign or a bad sign?

#11) According to one new report, the U.S. national debt will reach 100 percent of GDP by the year 2015. So is that a sign of economic recovery or of economic disaster?

#12) Monstrous amounts of oil continue to gush freely into the Gulf of Mexico, and analysts are already projecting that the seafood and tourism industries along the Gulf coast will be devastated for decades by this unprecedented environmental disaster. In light of those facts, how in the world can anyone project that the U.S. economy will soon be stronger than ever?

#13) The FDIC's list of problem banks recently hit a 17-year high. Do you think that an increasing number of small banks failing is a good sign or a bad sign for the U.S. economy?

#14) The FDIC is backing 8,000 banks that have a total of $13 trillion in assets with a deposit insurance fund that is basically flat broke. So what do you think will happen if a significant number of small banks do start failing?

#15) Existing home sales in the United States jumped 7.6 percent in April. That is the good news. The bad news is that this increase only happened because the deadline to take advantage of the temporary home buyer tax credit (government bribe) was looming. So now that there is no more tax credit for home buyers, what will that do to home sales?

#16) Both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac recently told the U.S. government that they are going to need even more bailout money. So what does it say about the U.S. economy when the two "pillars" of the U.S. mortgage industry are government-backed financial black holes that the U.S. government has to relentlessly pour money into?

#17) 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement. Tens of millions of Americans find themselves just one lawsuit, one really bad traffic accident or one very serious illness away from financial ruin. With so many Americans living on the edge, how can you say that the economy is healthy?

#18) The mayor of Detroit says that the real unemployment rate in his city is somewhere around 50 percent. So can the U.S. really be experiencing an economic recovery when so many are still unemployed in one of America's biggest cities?

#19) Gallup's measure of underemployment hit 20.0% on March 15th. That was up from 19.7% two weeks earlier and 19.5% at the start of the year. Do you think that is a good trend or a bad trend?

#20) One new poll shows that 76 percent of Americans believe that the U.S. economy is still in a recession. So are the vast majority of Americans just stupid or could we still actually be in a recession?

#21) The bottom 40 percent of those living in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth. So is Barack Obama's mantra that "what is good for Wall Street is good for Main Street" actually true?

#22) Richard Russell, the famous author of the Dow Theory Letters, says that Americans should sell anything they can sell in order to get liquid because of the economic trouble that is coming. Do you think that Richard Russell is delusional or could he possibly have a point?

#23) Defaults on apartment building mortgages held by U.S. banks climbed to a record 4.6 percent in the first quarter of 2010. In fact, that was almost twice the level of a year earlier. Does that look like a good trend to you?

#24) In March, the price of fresh and dried vegetables in the United States soared 49.3% - the most in 16 years. Is it a sign of a healthy economy when food prices are increasing so dramatically?

#25) 1.41 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009 - a 32 percent increase over 2008. Not only that, more Americans filed for bankruptcy in March 2010 than during any month since U.S. bankruptcy law was tightened in October 2005. So shouldn't we at least wait until the number of Americans filing for bankruptcy is not setting new all-time records before we even dare whisper the words "economic recovery"?

#2 ChucktownK

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:28 PM

Oh it's real, err...it's possible, it's just not happening NOW or in THIS country. ;)

Edited by ChucktownK, 26 May 2010 - 08:30 PM.


#3 rodeo

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:50 PM

optimism would go a long way to aid recovery.

#4 PanthersFanNY

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:51 PM

Hahahah "theeconomiccollapseblog" what a joke of a website.

#5 cookinwithgas

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:15 PM

we are about to face the worst depression in the history of this country and the world and you're making smartass remarks?

#6 pstall

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:08 PM

nowhere to go but up

#7 Jangler

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:33 AM

Wait, have we bottomed out yet?

#8 googoodan

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 04:01 AM

Hahahah "theeconomiccollapseblog" what a joke of a website.


lol @ attacking the source without adding a single fact to any side of a debate. I only saw 2 questions with disputable facts. How many did you see?
Posted Image

Edited by googoodan, 27 May 2010 - 04:03 AM.


#9 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 05:32 AM

lol @ attacking the source without adding a single fact to any side of a debate. I only saw 2 questions with disputable facts. How many did you see?


I saw mostly opinions being passed off as fact. Take for example question
18. Mentions one city, the worst one, and then goes on to talk about high unemployment rate in cities as if that one city is the average.


In fact, the very first sentence is misleading.

If you listen to the mainstream media long enough, you just might be tempted to believe that the United States has emerged from the recession and is now in the middle of a full-fledged economic recovery.


Maybe I am listening to the wrong mainstream media, but I haven't heard any of them say that the economy is in a full fledged recovery. Most are saying that economic indicators are mixed right now. All I have heard lately is how a country the size of South and North Carolina (Greece) is an indicator that Europe (and the US) is in trouble. IF anything, the "mainstream media" is extremely pessimistic right now, perhaps to much so since there are some positive number in the economy, especially regarding sales and growth.

Edited by Davidson Deac II, 27 May 2010 - 05:46 AM.


#10 googoodan

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:03 AM

I saw mostly opinions being passed off as fact. Take for example question
18. Mentions one city, the worst one, and then goes on to talk about high unemployment rate in cities as if that one city is the average.


Just because Detroit is in worse shape than any other metro area, doesn't mean it shouldn't count. He didn't talk about unemployment rates in cities. He talked about unemployment rate in Detroit.


In fact, the very first sentence is misleading.


Possibly. I don't know how in depth the media goes, but I do know that every time there is a minor sign that something is better than projected/last month/ this time last year / etc, they talk about it being a sign of recovery. I don't remember hearing them say we're at a full recovery (not for a few months, anyways).

I was thinking things like #2: realtytrac is a website that helps people find and buy foreclosed homes. The author makes it sound like it is an official authority on the matter. No, its amazon for homes.

#5 - I can't find this anywhere on google. I've only found a 1 cent per gallon tax to pay for the oil cleanup.

There are others that required a second look for me to catch:

#11 - what report?

#15 - pure speculation

#22 - makes no sense; in a complete economic collapse, money would hold little to no value, while goods can be bartered.

#20 - what poll? (not that I take polls seriously at all)

Edited by googoodan, 27 May 2010 - 06:05 AM.


#11 PanthersFanNY

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:24 AM

lol @ attacking the source without adding a single fact to any side of a debate. I only saw 2 questions with disputable facts. How many did you see?


It's a website for people like venom. That makes the website a joke because venom is a joke and all people similar to venom are a joke.

I've learned my lesson trying to debate with venom. All he does is say "sheeple you believe what you're told all the time" and he refuses to address anything said to him that refutes his points. He dismisses everything that doesn't support what he believes as propaganda.

But here, for you:

1. A projection isn't fact and the projection is probably just off an assumed increase rate. What if there is a decrease in unemployment between now and 2011? Unemployment is the main cause of the increase in food stamps usage, if that decreases, the projection based on current increase rates will be way off.
2. 2005 through 2010 is a small sample size to look and and say "its the worst ever."
3. A .9% increase isn't a tell all sign that we're heading for disaster and it won't improve. No poo things have been bad, but that isn't damning evidence.
4. From the chart from the source website (endoftheamericandream.com, another gem), it looks like home equity began to decline in 2005 or so. It looks like banks had a higher ownership percentage starting in 2008, so this isn't new. The good news from this one is that if you look at the chart, the increase in residential mortgage debt curtails at the end. So lately, people have less mortgage debt! A sign of recovery, perhaps?
5. Speculation on what is going to happen because of a bill that hasn't (has it?) been signed yet. Okay.
6. Yes if we look at California as an indication of how the country is doing, the outlook is grim. Luckily for us, California is not the United States and it needs to cut some bullshit from its budget.
7. No doubt state cuts will effect the local economies. A lot of states need to make budget cuts and become more efficient. I look forward to more fiscally responsible states, I don't know about you guys.
8. America doesn't produce enough, this has been an issue for a while.
9. A stupid comparison does not make it a good point. No poo I can't spend as fast as the federal government. The debt as a % of GDP has been higher in the past (right after WW2) so I'm not too concerned about it.
10. According to the article, the deficit is lower than it was last year at the end of the September by $3 billion. Improvement! Anyway I'm sure we almost always end up with more debt than we expected. Does this really surprise you and how is it an indication that the economy is doomed?


That's all I can do for now, gotta go to work.

#12 Squirrel

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 07:40 AM

If you want to know if we are just watch and see what the trucking and Cargo airlines are doing.

#13 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:37 AM

If you want to know if we are just watch and see what the trucking and Cargo airlines are doing.


Not just trucking and air.

Recovery rides on the rails

According to data produced by the American Association of Railroads (in its monthly Rail Time Indicators report), U.S. carloads jumped almost 16% from the year-ago level and hit their highest number since November 2008. Likewise, Canada was quite strong - carloads jumped almost 27% annually and ended up at a level not seen since October 2008.

Now, it is true that the year-ago level was abysmal, so the year-over-year comparison was easier. But progress is progress, and the fact that every major cargo category was positive for April strikes me as good news.



Keep An Eye On Coal
There is no denying the fact that coal is a huge component of North American rail traffic, as it comprises a huge percentage of all railroad traffic. It is, after all, the primary source of power in this country, and whatever environmental battles may be afoot, that statistic is not likely to change.

Simply put, when the economy is growing, there is more demand for power and more demand for coal. When the economy contracts, coal stockpiles build up. As major coal companies like Peabody Energy (NYSE: BTU) have told us, utilities built exceptionally large stockpiles throughout 2009. Some of this may have been due to advantageous contracts and a desire to hedge against future price shocks, but the bottom line seems to be this - coal is on the move again, and that suggests to me that the economic recovery is on reasonably sound footing



#14 Khyber53

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 09:00 AM

The economic indicators are showing signs of life and that's a very, very good thing. We could all certainly use some good news, no matter which party brings it, right?

Will the economy collapse? No. Could we see another catastrophic collapse soon? Possibly. We just can't guarantee any kind of prediction and when the crap hits the fan, we usually only see the cause of it with hindsight.

But 25 questions? Look, who has time to try and answer all of those? Not the people working to better their lives.

#15 pstall

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 09:48 AM

I always mention this. Baltic Dry Index. Pay attention to that.
You HAVE to look at the info behind the info. Just the basic stats that is provided from a site or a news channel is not an indicator but a RESULT. That's a big distinction.
For example, on Yahoo.com yest there was an article about people quitting their jobs.
To the casual viewer that seems interesting but not related to the economy. Oh but it is.
The reason they are quitting is because they feel MORE comfortable to jump ship and go for another job.
Stuff like that, info behind the info is an indicator of what is to come. Sure we have a long way to "recovery" but info like that to me is key to what is truly going on and has not be formulated to a stat to show up on CNN or a website yet.


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