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Bad News for Bobcats: Tyrus Thomas is now a WANTED MAN!!!


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#16 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 04:55 PM

1. Lakers had Ron Harper/Derek Fisher in 2000
2. Lakers has Ron Harper/Derek Fisher in 2001
3. Lakers had Derek Fisher in 2002
4. Spurs had Tony Parker/Speedy Claxton in 2003
5. Pistons had Chauncey Billups in 2004 (Billups was the MVP)
6. Spurs had Tony Parker in 2005
7. Heat had Gary Payton/Jason Williams in 2006
8. Spurs had Tony Parker in 2007 (Parker was the MVP)
9. Celtics had Rajon Rondo and Sam Cassell in 2008
10. Lakers had Derek Fisher in 2009
11. Lakers had Derek Fisher in 2010

Thats not a bad group.

#17 EC123

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:10 PM

1. Lakers had Ron Harper/Derek Fisher in 2000
2. Lakers has Ron Harper/Derek Fisher in 2001
3. Lakers had Derek Fisher in 2002
4. Spurs had Tony Parker/Speedy Claxton in 2003
5. Pistons had Chauncey Billups in 2004 (Billups was the MVP)
6. Spurs had Tony Parker in 2005
7. Heat had Gary Payton/Jason Williams in 2006
8. Spurs had Tony Parker in 2007 (Parker was the MVP)
9. Celtics had Rajon Rondo and Sam Cassell in 2008
10. Lakers had Derek Fisher in 2009
11. Lakers had Derek Fisher in 2010

Thats not a bad group.


Reputation is irrelevant. Payton and Harper were all name at that point.

Everyone on that list other than Tony Parker, at that point in their career, was a "SERVICEABLE POINT GUARD". They were slow, and other than Derek Fisher and Billups who I've already discussed, none of them could shoot all that well. None of them were the flashy point guards that you people covet. Rondo sucked in 2008.

And like I said, the Spurs won Championships before they ever had a "Tony Parker." They won with Avery Johnson.

Still, how many Championships have the "BEST" PGs in the league won since 2001. None of those guys on that list were the "BEST" PG in the league in that season.

The Lakers had Shaq in 2001 and 2002 (and of course Kobe).
The Spurs had Tim Duncan and David Robinson in 2003.

Only the 2004 Pistons could you POSSIBLY say that Billups was the best player on that team, which is arguable. Tayshaun Prince probably deserved to be the MVP. But even that team had RASHEED WALLACE dominating the 4, AND BEN WALLACE and others being able to somewhat defend Shaq.

Getting a very good Center to go along with Tyrus Thomas would do more for this team than getting a great PG and having a void in the middle. If they are going to make an investment this offseason, it should be to the inside. You can do more with a serviceable PG than you can with a pathetic inside game.

Edited by EC123, 05 July 2010 - 05:18 PM.


#18 pantherfan49

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:28 PM

And like I said, the Spurs won Championships before they ever had a "Tony Parker." They won with Avery Johnson.


Actually you said "Celtics" and not the "Spurs."

#19 mick eye

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:38 PM

Wow, lots of undercooked and not fully formed thoughts coming from EC12345's dome.
First and foremost WHO THE F DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Is a more relevant question than What,Why or How you came to think you know everything.

A debate about which is more valuable to a franchise a PG or a Center is a fair one. But anyone with a "brain" would know that the on-court extension of the coach and the main ball security agent is a valuable one. As a counterpoint the Center is typically the enforcer of the paint and rebound hound.

The Bobcats of course could make it through the season with mediocre "SERVICEABLE" play from the PG position. (We did it last year.) But exceptional PG play paired with a stable of "serviceable" Centers would improve our chances of getting past the first round of the playoffs. Speaking of playoffs. Did you see the Magic series or are you merely talking out your proverbial arse? Dwight Howard (undeniably the BEST Center in the GAME) was taken out of his game by our sub-par Center rotation. Jameer Nelson hurt us alot more.

CP3 would improve our team a million times more that Al Jefferson or any other Center/PF you have a man crush on. Point Guards make everyone on the team better. Centers get rebounds, blocks and defend the post. A scoring Center is an anomaly and is rarely who the offense flows through.

Evidently you have ZERO SHORT TERM MEMORY. Last year the Celtics had a young All Star in Rondo playing his heart out as much as anyone else on that squad. This year Derek Fisher who you dismiss as SERVICEABLE was the third leading scorer behind only Shaq and Kobe as part of a three peat many years ago. Phil Jackson has coached Derek for 11 years and trusts him as his field general. He is more than SERVICEABLE.

Speaking of recent champions the same disrespect you give Derek you heap on Chauncey Billups and Avery Johnson. Chauncey does more than as you eloquently put it "walk up the court and shoot a three." Avery has a well tuned mind for basketball that has served him well. Apparently you are more concerned with BRUTE FORCE than EFFICIENCY and INTELLIGENCE. You lose so much creditiblity when you reference the PG play of the BULLS DYNASTY ERA. I guess it was their Centers that won them those championships, huh? Luc Longley, Bill WeNNington, Will Perdue, and Bill Cartwright were that good i guess.

Sign Thomas, find a sharp shooting 6th man, get whatever you can for Raymond-TC-and Boris Diaw and add an upgrade at Point Guard....if you want a team that is exciting and can threaten in the East.

Worrying about big bodies in the paint over distributing the ball and making the other players better is simply NOT thinking.

#20 EC123

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:43 PM

Actually you said "Celtics" and not the "Spurs."


And yet every other time Tony Parker was discussed with the Spurs, so you know what I meant in that ONE SENTENCE out of hundreds, idiot.

#21 pantherfan49

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:45 PM

And yet every other time Tony Parker was discussed with the Spurs, so you know what I meant in that ONE SENTENCE out of hundreds, idiot.


Yep, you make the fugup and I am the idiot.

#22 EC123

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:46 PM

Wow, lots of undercooked and not fully formed thoughts coming from EC12345's dome.
First and foremost WHO THE F DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Is a more relevant question than What,Why or How you came to think you know everything.

A debate about which is more valuable to a franchise a PG or a Center is a fair one. But anyone with a "brain" would know that the on-court extension of the coach and the main ball security agent is a valuable one. As a counterpoint the Center is typically the enforcer of the paint and rebound hound.

The Bobcats of course could make it through the season with mediocre "SERVICEABLE" play from the PG position. (We did it last year.) But exceptional PG play paired with a stable of "serviceable" Centers would improve our chances of getting past the first round of the playoffs. Speaking of playoffs. Did you see the Magic series or are you merely talking out your proverbial arse? Dwight Howard (undeniably the BEST Center in the GAME) was taken out of his game by our sub-par Center rotation. Jameer Nelson hurt us alot more.

CP3 would improve our team a million times more that Al Jefferson or any other Center/PF you have a man crush on. Point Guards make everyone on the team better. Centers get rebounds, blocks and defend the post. A scoring Center is an anomaly and is rarely who the offense flows through.

Evidently you have ZERO SHORT TERM MEMORY. Last year the Celtics had a young All Star in Rondo playing his heart out as much as anyone else on that squad. This year Derek Fisher who you dismiss as SERVICEABLE was the third leading scorer behind only Shaq and Kobe as part of a three peat many years ago. Phil Jackson has coached Derek for 11 years and trusts him as his field general. He is more than SERVICEABLE.

Speaking of recent champions the same disrespect you give Derek you heap on Chauncey Billups and Avery Johnson. Chauncey does more than as you eloquently put it "walk up the court and shoot a three." Avery has a well tuned mind for basketball that has served him well. Apparently you are more concerned with BRUTE FORCE than EFFICIENCY and INTELLIGENCE. You lose so much creditiblity when you reference the PG play of the BULLS DYNASTY ERA. I guess it was their Centers that won them those championships, huh? Luc Longley, Bill WeNNington, Will Perdue, and Bill Cartwright were that good i guess.

Sign Thomas, find a sharp shooting 6th man, get whatever you can for Raymond-TC-and Boris Diaw and add an upgrade at Point Guard....if you want a team that is exciting and can threaten in the East.

Worrying about big bodies in the paint over distributing the ball and making the other players better is simply NOT thinking.


Anybody can distribute the ball.

I've already CORRECTED your argument in the other posts I made, so I'm not going to dedicate much time to it here.

A great point guard OVERCOMES flaws in the offense because he can create. A good big man ELIMINATES those problems just by being on the court, because he demands attention which creates perfect spacing, which allows even an OKAY PG to work.

Teams with the BEST PG win less often than those with the best inside offense (and defense), unless they have Jordan and Pippen on the wing, then they can have pathetic PGs and Centers and still win.

You're better when the game can be played from the inside-out unless you have Kobe Bryant or somebody like that on the wing who can operate outside the offense.

With what the Bobcats already have, Jefferson is more important than a CP3. CP3 still doesn't get them past Orlando.

Edited by EC123, 05 July 2010 - 05:50 PM.


#23 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:51 PM

Yeah, the sh*t that comes out of your mouth.......put it back in there because no one can understand it but you.

#24 mick eye

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:58 PM

Yeah, the sh*t that comes out of your mouth.......put it back in there because no one can understand it but you.



Yeah, CP i have to say EC is most def full of it. If CP3 is moved it will be huge news on par with the Lebron, Wade and Bosh Sweepstake. The Timberpups pawning off Al Jefferson and his escalating salary that will be 15 million before it expires will be merely a blip on the radar.

#25 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 05:58 PM

Anybody can distribute the ball.

I've already CORRECTED your argument in the other posts I made, so I'm not going to dedicate much time to it here.

A great point guard OVERCOMES flaws in the offense because he can create. A good big man ELIMINATES those problems just by being on the court, because he demands attention which creates perfect spacing, which allows even an OKAY PG to work.

Teams with the BEST PG win less often than those with the best inside offense (and defense), unless they have Jordan and Pippen on the wing, then they can have pathetic PGs and Centers and still win.

You're better when the game can be played from the inside-out unless you have Kobe Bryant or somebody like that on the wing who can operate outside the offense.

With what the Bobcats already have, Jefferson is more important than a CP3. CP3 still doesn't get them past Orlando.


The deciding factor was point guard play every f*cking analyst and fan knows that Raymond Felton got torched. We did not lose because of Dwight Howard. Howard was barely in the game because our mediocre Center's kept him in foul trouble. Raymond Felton's assists and points dropped, and his defense was horrendous giving up 23.8 points per game to a point guard that only averaged 12.6 during the NBA season.

#26 EC123

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 06:06 PM

Yep, you make the fugup and I am the idiot.


Exactly.

Because if Parker is discussed 99% of the time with the Spurs, if in ONE SENTENCE the Celtics are mistakingly used instead of the Spurs, then you focusing on that as if I don't know that he plays for the Spurs as I have said every other time, makes you the IDIOT for focusing on that one instance. :rolleyes:

#27 EC123

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 06:15 PM

The deciding factor was point guard play every f*cking analyst and fan knows that Raymond Felton got torched. We did not lose because of Dwight Howard. Howard was barely in the game because our mediocre Center's kept him in foul trouble. Raymond Felton's assists and points dropped, and his defense was horrendous giving up 23.8 points per game to a point guard that only averaged 12.6 during the NBA season.


No, they lost because the Bobcats had a RIDICULOUS GAME STRATEGY.

Before the Series began, I said, if the Bobcats come out trying to **DOUBLE** Dwight Howard they will get destroyed.

On the first play of the Series, Felton left Jameer Nelson to double Dwight Howard, and Nelson knocked down a three pointer, and the rest is history.

The Bobcats never focused more on the 3-point line, instead of Howard, even with him in foul trouble every game. They never adjusted to the 3-point line, they even kept talking about Dwight Howard before other games, even though he wasn't playing.

It's like they didn't believe that the other players could be winning the series without Howard doing anything.

Yes, Felton got torched. So did Boris Diaw. So did whoever was guarding Pietrus when he was in the game.

I ripped them all during the Finals, including Larry Brown, because the problem wasn't Jameer Nelson, or Dwight Howard, or Rashard Lewis...THE PROBLEM WAS THE BOBCATS' STRATEGY of focusing more attention on Howard than he deserved.

If they would have had an Al Jefferson, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE THE FATAL ERROR AT THE ONSET OF GAME ONE OF DOUBLING HOWARD.

Felton would have stayed home on the first play, Nelson wouldn't have been wide open for a 3 pointer or anything else, because the players wouldn't have been distracted by the fact that Howard even existed, and that alone would have changed the series.

It wasn't the "POINT GUARD" that decided that series. It was the Bobcats as a team worried about what Howard MIGHT DO to them, even though he ended up doing nothing. That's what allowed all of the other players, including Nelson, to get going and stay going.

With a Jefferson, they never would have been worried about Dwight Howard, and that alone would have changed the Series.

Thanks for playing along, now stop looking at everything only on the SURFACE and learn to see the underlying issues that really cause the problems.

It was them believing that they had NO ONE who could match Howard one on one. That's what they never really overcame.

Edited by EC123, 05 July 2010 - 06:24 PM.


#28 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 06:18 PM

No, they lost because the Bobcats had a RETARDED GAME STRATEGY.

Before the Series began, I said, if the Bobcats come out trying to **DOUBLE** Dwight Howard they will get destroyed.

On the first play of the Series, Felton left Jameer Nelson to double Dwight Howard, and Nelson knocked down a three pointer, and the rest is history.

The Bobcats never focused more on the 3-point line, instead of Howard, even with him in foul trouble every game. They never adjusted to the 3-point line, they even kept talking about Dwight Howard before other games, even though he wasn't playing.

It's like they didn't believe that the other players could be winning the series without Howard doing anything.

Yes, Felton got torched. So did Boris Diaw. So did whoever was guarding Pietrus when he was in the game.

I ripped them all during the Finals, including Larry Brown, because the problem wasn't Jameer Nelson, or Dwight Howard, or Rashard Lewis...THE PROBLEM WAS THE BOBCATS' STRATEGY of focusing more attention on Howard than he deserved.

If they would have had an Al Jefferson, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE THE FATAL ERROR AT THE ONSET OF GAME ONE OF DOUBLING HOWARD.

Felton would have stayed home on the first play, Nelson wouldn't have been wide open for a 3 pointer or anything else, because the players wouldn't have been distracted by the fact that Howard even existed, and that alone would have changed the series.

It wasn't the "POINT GUARD" that decided that series. It was the Bobcats as a team worried about what Howard MIGHT DO to them, even though he ended up doing nothing.

With a Jefferson, they never would have been, and that alone would have changed the Series.

Thanks for playing along, now stop looking at everything only on the SURFACE and learn to see the underlying issues that really cause the problems.

It was them believing that they had NO ONE who could match Howard one on one.


When Minnesota played Orlando this year Jefferson gave up 25 points and 19 rebounds. I don't think that is what the Bobcats want. But hey if you wanna suck A.L.J.'s dick then be my guest.

#29 EC123

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 06:38 PM

When Minnesota played Orlando this year Jefferson gave up 25 points and 19 rebounds. I don't think that is what the Bobcats want. But hey if you wanna suck A.L.J.'s dick then be my guest.


And yet Jefferson had a respectable 18 and 13, which is technically, "holding his own," which is all I've ever said he'd need to be able to do one on one. Anyone with a brain knows that Howard had to "pay attention to" Jefferson. If the Timberwolves had other players worth anything, they would have benefited from that fact. The Bobcats slashing players could.

Look clueless wonder, The Bobcats *ARE NOT* the Timberwolves.

It's not all about Jefferson. I'm discussing the effect of an Al Jefferson and his consistent 18 and 10 on THE BOBCATS, not on a pathetic Timberwolves team with nothing else but him.

You act like all other things between the Bobcats and the Timberwolves are equal where you can make a baseline assessment.

You all really need to see things in the proper perspective and quit focusing on meaningless issues.

If the Bobcats knew that they could get 18 and 13 out of an inside guy against Dwight Howard's 24 and 19, they'd have taken it. They still wouldn't have doubled Howard. They definitely wouldn't have been unreasonably concerned about him.

Besides, the Timberwolves lost that game because Reddick and Anderson, two of the three white guys off of the Magic's bench, burned Wayne Ellington and Kevin Love for a combined 33 points (14 and 19, respectively).

Like I said earlier, "NUMBERS" alone never tell the whole story. 24 and 19 for Howard is less important in a 9 point loss than 33 points from two bench players, alone.

Do you all EVER see the bigger picture? Are you even capable of doing so?

Edited by EC123, 05 July 2010 - 06:56 PM.


#30 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:00 PM

And yet Jefferson had a respectable 18 and 13, which is technically, "holding his own," which is all I've ever said he'd need to be able to do one on one. Anyone with a brain knows that Howard had to "pay attention to" Jefferson. If the Timberwolves had other players worth anything, they would have benefited from that fact. The Bobcats slashing players could.

Look clueless wonder, The Bobcats *ARE NOT* the Timberwolves.

It's not all about Jefferson, idiot. I'm discussing the effect of an Al Jefferson and his consistent 18 and 10 on THE BOBCATS, not on a pathetic Timberwolves team with nothing else but him.

You act like all other things between the Bobcats and the Timberwolves are equal where you can make a baseline assessment.

You all really need to see things in the proper perspective and quit focusing on meaningless issues.

If the Bobcats knew that they could get 18 and 13 out of an inside guy against Dwight Howard's 24 and 19, they'd have taken it. They still wouldn't have doubled Howard. They definitely wouldn't have been unreasonably concerned about him.

Besides, the Timberwolves lost that game because Reddick and Anderson, two of the three white guys off of the Magic's bench, burned Wayne Ellington and Kevin Love for a combined 33 points (14 and 19, respectively).

Like I said earlier, "NUMBERS" alone never tell the whole story. 24 and 19 for Howard is less important in a 9 point loss than 33 points from two bench players, alone.

Do you all EVER see the bigger picture? Are you even capable of doing so?


Oh, I am capable of seeing the big picture as everyone else but you is. David Lee put up 20 points and 12 rebounds against the Magic so he is capable of playing against Howard. The Knicks like the Timberwolves have no perimeter threat, all of their game comes from the Center and Forward position. As far as Lee not being able to bang well that statement is ludicrous because Lee averaged 2.4 rebounds more than Jefferson. The sad part about that is Jefferson has an 1 inch and 15 lbs. on Lee. Also the Magic is one of the teams the Bobcats play so we're not going after a player for the main reason of stopping another. With Lee being supported by "S-Jax", "The Force", and "TNT" the Bobcats would capture on their lack of size for quickness, toughness, and pure athleticism. David Lee is far more athletic than Jefferson. He is quicker and reacts faster, if I wanted a player like A.J. I would have called Fat Albert.

Quit arguing with me, your points are null in void, starting with your statement that David Lee a 2009/2010 NBA All-Star sucks.

You are a crazy, psychotic, dumb @ss that does not comprehend the slightest concept of basketball.


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