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#1 MHS831

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 06:51 PM

After fumbling a few times vs. Green Bay and costing us the game, rookie (I think) Steve Smith had been replaced. At the time he was just a cocky third rounder who was a kick returner.

What if Moose Muhammad had been benched after his first two seasons where he started 22 games and caught 27 and 25 passes respectively. Get him out, sit him down, trade him.

The Seahawks cut Jon Kasay after his second season, one in which he hit only 63% of his field goals indoors on turf? He might have been out of football, never being signed by the expansion Panthers. Or what if the Panthers decided he has nothing left in 2002 after he was injured, mercifully ending a season in which he hit 40% of his field goals with a long of 27 yards.

A young QB is benched after starting 8 (some as an undrafted rookie) games and throwing 11 TDs vs. 7 interceptions and has a QB rating of nearly 85. A WInner of 67 percent of his games after not getting reps with the first team in practice for more than 2 months in his career.

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Many of the people who are screaming for a WR now were screaming for WRs to replace young Smitty and Moose. They want Moore out when he has only done the unthinkable for an undrafted young QB in a league where half of the first round QBs bust.

Let Edwards, Lafell, Gettis, and Martin grow. If they fail, you can tell everyone you were right and ignore all the times you weren't. But we will never know if we keep burying them with expensive journeymen and quick fixes.

Hopefully this perspective will enlighten some of you. Tne others have the right to their own opinions, because dumbasses have rights too.

#2 Sword

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 06:56 PM

what if...we sign TJ Houshmanzadeh?...J/K Good post though

#3 AceMan

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 07:07 PM

Nice effort :)

#4 MHS831

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 07:10 PM

what if...we sign TJ Houshmanzadeh?...J/K Good post though


I agree. We should do it!

#5 SorthNarolina

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:50 PM

I like the message but the comparisons don't really hold any water.

#6 1989

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:53 PM

good post... we havent seen these guys play a real game... wait until week 4 at least before we start calling for someones head.

#7 MHS831

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 09:33 PM

I like the message but the comparisons don't really hold any water.


Here's your water: People griped about drafting Smith, threw him to the wolves when he made rookie mistakes. What if we had brought in someone and benched or cut him? How many balls did Moose, one of our best WRs ever, catch in his first two years? What if we had brought in a veteran that would have interrupted his development for a year or two? People are griping about Moore and he has outplayed veterans making ten million a year.

Do you know how good David Gettis will be? Edwards? Lafell? Martin? If you bring in someone, you may never know. We have been drafting well, why not play those cards? Hope the point is clear, because it can be easily applied to this situation. Bring in someone and you could be cutting or hindering the development of the next Smitty (Edwards), Moose (Lafell), for example.

#8 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 09:42 PM

In 2001 (Smith's rookie season) the Panthers went 1-15 and had a crappy team.

In 1996 (Moose had the 25 grabs) the Panthers went 12-4 and had a stellar team.

In 1997 (Moose had the 27 grabs) the Panthers went 7-9 and had a pretty decent team.

If Kasay had been cut here or in Seattle and never come here, we would've signed another and been just fine. He is not God.

Moore would've been benched in your scenario for a better QB. Clausen is not currently better.

If you're fine with going 7-9 while this team grows, more power to you. Some of us want to win. All these people want is ONE small thing, a solid #2 WR while the youngins get used to the game. Sure we may get luckyh like the Iggles did with DeSean Jackson but that's rare.

BTW, Smitty was not a #2, nor was Moose. Nice try though. They came off the bench and...helped. Moose filled in VERY nicely.

#9 SorthNarolina

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:05 PM

Here's your water: People griped about drafting Smith, threw him to the wolves when he made rookie mistakes. What if we had brought in someone and benched or cut him? How many balls did Moose, one of our best WRs ever, catch in his first two years? What if we had brought in a veteran that would have interrupted his development for a year or two? People are griping about Moore and he has outplayed veterans making ten million a year.

Do you know how good David Gettis will be? Edwards? Lafell? Martin? If you bring in someone, you may never know. We have been drafting well, why not play those cards? Hope the point is clear, because it can be easily applied to this situation. Bring in someone and you could be cutting or hindering the development of the next Smitty (Edwards), Moose (Lafell), for example.


Like I said before I like and agree with the message but the methods you use to prove it don't really work.

Finding successful players and then playing the "what if?" game doesn't prove anything. You could go and find all the players that never worked out, play the same "what if?" game and have a counterpoint just as strong. Using hindsight never holds any water.

#10 thunderraiden

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:22 PM

yea.. all i know is that these players took years to develop by your reasoning. We just want a reliable #2 here for a year or two and besides... we have a first round pick next year... where are we going to use it?

#11 MHS831

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 11:58 PM

Like I said before I like and agree with the message but the methods you use to prove it don't really work.

Finding successful players and then playing the "what if?" game doesn't prove anything. You could go and find all the players that never worked out, play the same "what if?" game and have a counterpoint just as strong. Using hindsight never holds any water.


What many on this board seem to be doing is assuming we have no talent and are frantic to a point where they want to bring in players before these get a decent chance. My point is not to be applied to every situation, it is to illustrate how wrong fans can be.

I have not idea what the hell Uptown is trying to say. How do you know we are going 7-9 with these players, and how do you know that is my goal? What a stupid comment.

My point is this: If you bury potential, it never materializes, and instead of building a quality program with players you scout and develop, you go to yard sales and try to bring in people who became established in other programs and who may not be worth a damn here either. You all saw four preseason games and you are ready to throw away the season if we don't bring in other teams' rejects. That is some powerful logic and an approach that has not worked in football--works in baseball, basketball, but not football. So remember, Nostra Dumas, 7-9 was your comment, not mine. Since you like winning so much more than me (someone you don't know or you would have just walked away before all that cyber courage pulsed through your veins), then will you celebrate when they don't bring in anyone and the Panthers go 10-6? If so, you are a hypocrite. If not, you are also a hypocrite. The corner is where your argument put you. You probably don't see that.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we should have brought in TO, Antonio Bryant, Whoseyourmama. Maybe they would have cut Gettis, Martin, and a DT to do so. Then things fall apart--TO becomes TO, Bryant has surgery, and WHoseyourmama continues to struggle as he ages. You spent part of your core for that? Super Bowl! Players who build reputations on other teams are rarely worth the investment. Fool's gold to sell your soul for a highlight reel. 7-9 indeed, winner.

#12 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:18 AM

What many on this board seem to be doing is assuming we have no talent and are frantic to a point where they want to bring in players before these get a decent chance. My point is not to be applied to every situation, it is to illustrate how wrong fans can be.

I have not idea what the hell Uptown is trying to say. How do you know we are going 7-9 with these players, and how do you know that is my goal? What a stupid comment.

My point is this: If you bury potential, it never materializes, and instead of building a quality program with players you scout and develop, you go to yard sales and try to bring in people who became established in other programs and who may not be worth a damn here either. You all saw four preseason games and you are ready to throw away the season if we don't bring in other teams' rejects. That is some powerful logic and an approach that has not worked in football--works in baseball, basketball, but not football. So remember, Nostra Dumas, 7-9 was your comment, not mine. Since you like winning so much more than me (someone you don't know or you would have just walked away before all that cyber courage pulsed through your veins), then will you celebrate when they don't bring in anyone and the Panthers go 10-6? If so, you are a hypocrite. If not, you are also a hypocrite. The corner is where your argument put you. You probably don't see that.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we should have brought in TO, Antonio Bryant, Whoseyourmama. Maybe they would have cut Gettis, Martin, and a DT to do so. Then things fall apart--TO becomes TO, Bryant has surgery, and WHoseyourmama continues to struggle as he ages. You spent part of your core for that? Super Bowl! Players who build reputations on other teams are rarely worth the investment. Fool's gold to sell your soul for a highlight reel. 7-9 indeed, winner.


Calm down, Sally. No one wants to "bury" our rookie WRs. We simply don't want one as a #2 THIS YEAR. How hard is that to understand? Smitty did not start out as a #2. Moose did not start out as a #2. You rarely see a rookie excel in his first season. They can contribute, sure, and that's what I expect our guys to do. And they can do that coming off the bench. The sooner you understand that, the sooner this thread can die. But by all means, let's throw Armanti to the wolves every game. Nothing bad can go wrong there. And if it does, who cares, it's just a game. That was sarcasm, by the way.

As for what I was talking about, it was simple poking fun. Don't know why you read into it what you did. You just came off as someone who can be happy with mediocrity as we play rookies in important roles and watch them grow. I, do not like mediocrity. If I did, I'd be a college football fan of some craptastic team that never makes a bowl game.

#13 Wither

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:24 AM

If Kasay had been cut here or in Seattle and never come here, we would've signed another and been just fine. He is not God.


Well, no, of course he isn't; that is Smitty's place.

However, I would say Kasay is a pretty high-ranking angel.

#14 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:26 AM

Well, no, of course he isn't; that is Smitty's place.

However, I would say Kasay is a pretty high-ranking angel.


No doubt. But there have been many angels kicking FGs since he's been around. He's sure saved our asses a lot though. Guardian Angel Kasay.

And yes, Smitty is the rightful owner of the title of God.

#15 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 02:11 AM

Bruce Carter, LB, UNC. Replace T. Davis if he can't recover, or let Beason go back to the middle and let him play strong side :)

yea.. all i know is that these players took years to develop by your reasoning. We just want a reliable #2 here for a year or two and besides... we have a first round pick next year... where are we going to use it?




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