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MHS831

What if...

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Like I said before I like and agree with the message but the methods you use to prove it don't really work.

Finding successful players and then playing the "what if?" game doesn't prove anything. You could go and find all the players that never worked out, play the same "what if?" game and have a counterpoint just as strong. Using hindsight never holds any water.

What many on this board seem to be doing is assuming we have no talent and are frantic to a point where they want to bring in players before these get a decent chance. My point is not to be applied to every situation, it is to illustrate how wrong fans can be.

I have not idea what the hell Uptown is trying to say. How do you know we are going 7-9 with these players, and how do you know that is my goal? What a stupid comment.

My point is this: If you bury potential, it never materializes, and instead of building a quality program with players you scout and develop, you go to yard sales and try to bring in people who became established in other programs and who may not be worth a damn here either. You all saw four preseason games and you are ready to throw away the season if we don't bring in other teams' rejects. That is some powerful logic and an approach that has not worked in football--works in baseball, basketball, but not football. So remember, Nostra Dumas, 7-9 was your comment, not mine. Since you like winning so much more than me (someone you don't know or you would have just walked away before all that cyber courage pulsed through your veins), then will you celebrate when they don't bring in anyone and the Panthers go 10-6? If so, you are a hypocrite. If not, you are also a hypocrite. The corner is where your argument put you. You probably don't see that.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we should have brought in TO, Antonio Bryant, Whoseyourmama. Maybe they would have cut Gettis, Martin, and a DT to do so. Then things fall apart--TO becomes TO, Bryant has surgery, and WHoseyourmama continues to struggle as he ages. You spent part of your core for that? Super Bowl! Players who build reputations on other teams are rarely worth the investment. Fool's gold to sell your soul for a highlight reel. 7-9 indeed, winner.

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What many on this board seem to be doing is assuming we have no talent and are frantic to a point where they want to bring in players before these get a decent chance. My point is not to be applied to every situation, it is to illustrate how wrong fans can be.

I have not idea what the hell Uptown is trying to say. How do you know we are going 7-9 with these players, and how do you know that is my goal? What a stupid comment.

My point is this: If you bury potential, it never materializes, and instead of building a quality program with players you scout and develop, you go to yard sales and try to bring in people who became established in other programs and who may not be worth a damn here either. You all saw four preseason games and you are ready to throw away the season if we don't bring in other teams' rejects. That is some powerful logic and an approach that has not worked in football--works in baseball, basketball, but not football. So remember, Nostra Dumas, 7-9 was your comment, not mine. Since you like winning so much more than me (someone you don't know or you would have just walked away before all that cyber courage pulsed through your veins), then will you celebrate when they don't bring in anyone and the Panthers go 10-6? If so, you are a hypocrite. If not, you are also a hypocrite. The corner is where your argument put you. You probably don't see that.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we should have brought in TO, Antonio Bryant, Whoseyourmama. Maybe they would have cut Gettis, Martin, and a DT to do so. Then things fall apart--TO becomes TO, Bryant has surgery, and WHoseyourmama continues to struggle as he ages. You spent part of your core for that? Super Bowl! Players who build reputations on other teams are rarely worth the investment. Fool's gold to sell your soul for a highlight reel. 7-9 indeed, winner.

Calm down, Sally. No one wants to "bury" our rookie WRs. We simply don't want one as a #2 THIS YEAR. How hard is that to understand? Smitty did not start out as a #2. Moose did not start out as a #2. You rarely see a rookie excel in his first season. They can contribute, sure, and that's what I expect our guys to do. And they can do that coming off the bench. The sooner you understand that, the sooner this thread can die. But by all means, let's throw Armanti to the wolves every game. Nothing bad can go wrong there. And if it does, who cares, it's just a game. That was sarcasm, by the way.

As for what I was talking about, it was simple poking fun. Don't know why you read into it what you did. You just came off as someone who can be happy with mediocrity as we play rookies in important roles and watch them grow. I, do not like mediocrity. If I did, I'd be a college football fan of some craptastic team that never makes a bowl game.

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If Kasay had been cut here or in Seattle and never come here, we would've signed another and been just fine. He is not God.

Well, no, of course he isn't; that is Smitty's place.

However, I would say Kasay is a pretty high-ranking angel.

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Well, no, of course he isn't; that is Smitty's place.

However, I would say Kasay is a pretty high-ranking angel.

No doubt. But there have been many angels kicking FGs since he's been around. He's sure saved our asses a lot though. Guardian Angel Kasay.

And yes, Smitty is the rightful owner of the title of God.

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Bruce Carter, LB, UNC. Replace T. Davis if he can't recover, or let Beason go back to the middle and let him play strong side :)

yea.. all i know is that these players took years to develop by your reasoning. We just want a reliable #2 here for a year or two and besides... we have a first round pick next year... where are we going to use it?

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Calm. But if people want to contradict a point, make sure you don't have to twist the original statement before attacking it. I used the two most successful WRs in Panther history to make a point. Never said it applies to all WRs throughout time. Never said I was happy going 7-9 or we would go 7-9. I even think bringing in someone for one year is detrimental because you have to cut people and bench people for your quick fix, and there are no guarantees they will succeed here. What have you done? Destroyed confidence, set your development back a year, and denied the opportunity to display the talent you drafted. 4 vanilla preseason games and some people want to throw away or shelve the talent we were bragging about since April. Does this mean we are destined to lose? Hell no. It means we should not be scared to go with and believe in what we have.

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There has to be a limit on a reasonable timeframe for a player to develop. We are notorious for keeping players that arent worth a sh!t and well past there expiration date. Despite Smitty's fumbling problem early in his career, Stevie Wonder could see he was going to be special, same with Moose, we saw them contribute and lead in the following years. Fans are critical because they have seen no viable progress in the receiving department for years, not that the FO hasn't tried. But when you draft a bunch of receivers and none of them set the world on fire in preseason fans have been conditioned to say 'Oh ***' not again.

All the new guys drafted have a pass and I hope they step up.

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After fumbling a few times vs. Green Bay and costing us the game, rookie (I think) Steve Smith had been replaced. At the time he was just a cocky third rounder who was a kick returner.

What if Moose Muhammad had been benched after his first two seasons where he started 22 games and caught 27 and 25 passes respectively. Get him out, sit him down, trade him.

The Seahawks cut Jon Kasay after his second season, one in which he hit only 63% of his field goals indoors on turf? He might have been out of football, never being signed by the expansion Panthers. Or what if the Panthers decided he has nothing left in 2002 after he was injured, mercifully ending a season in which he hit 40% of his field goals with a long of 27 yards.

A young QB is benched after starting 8 (some as an undrafted rookie) games and throwing 11 TDs vs. 7 interceptions and has a QB rating of nearly 85. A WInner of 67 percent of his games after not getting reps with the first team in practice for more than 2 months in his career.

-----

Many of the people who are screaming for a WR now were screaming for WRs to replace young Smitty and Moose. They want Moore out when he has only done the unthinkable for an undrafted young QB in a league where half of the first round QBs bust.

Let Edwards, Lafell, Gettis, and Martin grow. If they fail, you can tell everyone you were right and ignore all the times you weren't. But we will never know if we keep burying them with expensive journeymen and quick fixes.

Good post.

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