Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

panther4life

Is a pocket presence something you can learn or a natural talent?

Recommended Posts

Face it, Matt Moore's arm will never be the same since he had teh Tommy Jone surgery.

It's time to find another QB! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another game like last game and then you have to give Jimmy 1 shot. If Jimmy fails, then go back to Moore.

yea like the browns last season! smh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Thanks, P4L. I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice it. It's easy to see in highlight packages. For fun, I watched some highlights from Moore last year and then Brees. Of course, Brees is a fantastic QB but when you watch a guy like him to can see how different he reads the field. I swear, half the time it seems like he finds the open receiver when looking at the defense on the opposite side of the field. It's like he sees that there's an extra linebacker or DB to one side and realizes instantly who's single covered or where the soft spot in the zone is. He's looking one direction and then, bam, pivot and throw.

I would love for Moore to prove me wrong and become a franchise QB. I love the Panthers and just think the best players should play. What's funny is, I bet, Fox and Co. agree. They want to win this year but not at the expense of throwing a young QB in too early. You don't have to look much farther than Fox's history to see he really likes to sit young players for a looooonnnnng time before playing them and even then it takes an act of God.

Unless Moore does get injured we've got him the whole season. The only way Jimmy plays is injury or if when we loose enough games we can't make the playoffs.

that seems fair. Comparing a guy with 9 NFL starts.....with Drew Brees. Shocking that Brees looks to do things signicantly better. Moore must suck.

as far as the last goes, Moore isn't Jake and hasn't earned the right w/ Foxy to play at such a poor level for multiple games. Fox is a lame duck and is leaving....he will do whatever it takes to look the best THIS year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moore reminds me of a slightly better, more mobile version of Chris Weinke.

I remember having argument after argument over why Weinke was not a good QB while the fan base continually pined for him.

What I mean is, much like Weinke, he seems to lack any ability to improvise or move beyond the called play to a specific receiver. He looks like he drops back and runs the play on automatic regardless of what the defense does. This can work will is hurry up mode when the defense has less time to react or when the run game is doing really well because the focus is off the passing game.

I really think when you turn up the pressure the game moves to fast for him. His mind can't make the decisions fast enough.

His pocket awareness is bad because when your first receiver is covered you have to run through plans B-F in a second and make a move.

I've thought this about him from the first time I saw him in extended playing time (not including preseason).

Yeah, I'm a Jimmy guy. I like him because I see the exact opposite traits in him. Jimmy might play just as bad as Moore to start but Moore will never be much more than he is right now.

how you see that in jimmy? He hasnt even played!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's enough film on Jimmy at ND and through the preseason to see some of those intangibles. I don't know for sure. You base your opinion on what you see. It doesn't take a lot of film to see if a QB consistently reads a defense and goes though his progressions or if he locks onto his first receiver, or if he's a mobile QB or a stature. Some things you can pick up right away.

That doesn't mean Jimmy will become a even average QB. It's all potential but it's potential I've never seen in Moore even though Moore's been in the league for a few years and started numerous games.

I'm not exactly comparing Brees to Moore. You're right, it's wouldn't be fair. I'm using one of the best in the NFL to highlight some things that any successful QB in the NFL must be able to do. While not many can or will do it to the level the Brees does, using him as an example makes it easier to see my point.

I'm sure Moore wants to be a better QB and he's not watching game film of Rodney Peete to see how to be a successful QB. He watching the Drew Brees and Payton Manning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as far as the last goes, Moore isn't Jake and hasn't earned the right w/ Foxy to play at such a poor level for multiple games. Fox is a lame duck and is leaving....he will do whatever it takes to look the best THIS year.

I disagree. Just by virtue of becoming a starter on a John Fox team affords you that right. If nothing else Fox makes you earn your spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets clarify a few things. Pocket presence is not what keeps you from throwing interceptions, pocket presence is what allows the quarterback to elude pressure and sense the pass rush to avoid sacks. It allows him to feel the rush rather than see it so he can continue to focus down field until a receiver comes open. When he feels the rush he can throw the ball away, run with it or tuck it at least to avoid fumbling the ball.

What most people are complaining about is not pocket presence but failing to go through his progressions, difficulty reading defenses, not finding the mismatches or anticipating the defensive help over the top to avoid throwing into double or triple coverage.

Yes when a quarterback is being hurried he tends to make poorer decisions than when he has all day but throwing interceptions is really a function of not reading the defense, taking an unnecessary risk, or trying to make something happen when it just isn't there. Most of that gets corrected with experience and watching hours of film.

Some of Moore's mistakes were on him and he wasn't under great pressure. Other times it was poor playcalling. Still other times it was poor O-line play.

Tampa will play the same defense we employ and a similar one to the Giants last week. If we have a good plan and he is patient we will be fine. If not it could be a long day again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites




Lets clarify a few things. Pocket presence is not what keeps you from throwing interceptions, pocket presence is what allows the quarterback to elude pressure and sense the pass rush to avoid sacks. It allows him to feel the rush rather than see it so he can continue to focus down field until a receiver comes open. When he feels the rush he can throw the ball away, run with it or tuck it at least to avoid fumbling the ball.

What most people are complaining about is not pocket presence but failing to go through his progressions, difficulty reading defenses, not finding the mismatches or anticipating the defensive help over the top to avoid throwing into double or triple coverage.

Yes when a quarterback is being hurried he tends to make poorer decisions than when he has all day but throwing interceptions is really a function of not reading the defense, taking an unnecessary risk, or trying to make something happen when it just isn't there. Most of that gets corrected with experience and watching hours of film.

Some of Moore's mistakes were on him and he wasn't under great pressure. Other times it was poor playcalling. Still other times it was poor O-line play.

Tampa will play the same defense we employ and a similar one to the Giants last week. If we have a good plan and he is patient we will be fine. If not it could be a long day again.

Good post. I couldn't agree more. Can't wait for the game Sunday. Despite my criticism of Moore I am rooting for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moore had pocket presence in those games last year. I think he just doesn't want to give up on the play. But there were times where I couldn't believe that he didn't see the pressure coming. I think it was nerves.

As for his arm I think it's good enough he just needs to learn when to throw the bullets. He's got good touch and good timing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agree with alot being posted here, pocket awareness is something most guys just have but it is something you can improve on. moore has shown that he can MANAGE A GAME when double trouble is clicking, fact is he just is not that accurate of a passer & his judgement seems to be average.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pocket presense is absolutely learned not something you are born with. Just like a CIA operative trains until he has the ability to recognize things on a conscious level that most others don't see. Quarterbacks are trained to feel the pressure, hear the footsteps of the defender, and recognize when the pocket is about to collapse. They learn to step up, slide one way or the other and generally buy some time. It nay seem instinctual but is honed over time through repetition and practice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just too trigger happy to make something happen. Look at the pre-season, we didnt score once. Those INT came from being too trigger happy and to me not enough practice on redzone plays. Key word, I said enough

We had redzone problems in pre-season. Every time we got there, something always happened. Once it was penalties, once it was fumbling, and against NY it was interceptions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



×