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#1 Mr. Scot

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:22 AM

So right now, we have a fair amount of complaining going on about the way personnel matters are handled. The source of all the angst? That would be the front office decisions to avoid going big into free agency, choosing instead to concentrate on building through the draft and retaining their own free agents as core players (except, of course, when they're looking for a bonanza payday).

Not sure why people are surprised at that happening this year, seeing as the team has been taking that approach for a while now. This year's decision to unload several older vets, most of whom the team saw as making a little more money than their performance would merit, might make it seem like the approach has kicked into a higher gear. It really hasn't. Those two things are separate issues, but I suppose I can see how people put two and two together.

In reality, the Panthers are not the only team that prefers to work this way. The Steelers are well known for it, and I've heard more than one Eagle fan complain about the team continually having money to spend, but not spending as much of it as they wish. And yes, there are others, but the main focus here is of course on Carolina, so let's take a closer look at things right here in our backyard.

Here at home, the real bad news for the unhappy crowd is that there's reason to believe this MO isn't going away anytime soon.

With both of the Richardson sons gone, and Danny Morrison's job description being concentrated on the business side of things, the most powerful man in the football operations area of the Panthers is Marty Hurney. For all intents and purposes, Hurney is king of all he surveys. And Hurney seems to like the approach (though peppered with an occasional trade). Throw in how all indications are that Hurney and Fox are no longer the "package deal" that they once were thought to be, so even if John Fox isn't retained, Marty Hurney likely stays.

"But" you say, "we've saved all that money. Assuming there's football next year, we'd be poised to go on a free agent spending spree, right?"

Indeed, you can expect the Panthers to work on signing free agents, or potential free agents. Look for names like Jon Beason, Ryan Kalil, Thomas Davis and DeAngelo Williams to get contract offers from the team.

"But those guys already play here" you say.

Exactly :sosp:

I'll grant that the flux which could result from a new head coach may make some waves, but signs in general point to Marty Hurney being around as GM of the Panthers for a while to come. Should he happen to be replaced or succeeded though, it'll likely be by someone with the same philosophy. After all, it starts at the top.

I don't write this to depress you. Rather just to say that if you're waiting for some big shakeup to come, I wouldn't hold my breath.

#2 Double34Trouble28

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:29 AM

Nothing to say, but I completely agree with your assessment. Many here won't want to hear it, but thats just how the Panthers are going to run things. On the flip side of what we do, big time free agency acquisitions have not worked out too well for some teams in the league(i.e. Washington) so we should just chill out. We could be in much worse shape than we are now. We field at the very least a decent team. We are not in the basement of the league contrary to what some people think, and building a youth movement through the draft could bring great things in the somewhat near future. Would I love to have Vincent Jackson? Absolutely, but banging our heads against the wall isn't going to make it happen. Support the FO, they aren't doing stupid stuff like some teams, just because sometimes we don't agree with it doesn't mean its wrong.

#3 top dawg

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:36 AM

In theory, I believe that this management philosophy is correct on a fundamental level, but I do believe that you have to have a certain amount of flexibility to be able to adapt to the situation at hand. You can take a chance every now and then, and still let the core principles of building and promoting from within be your guiding light.

#4 Mr. Scot

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:41 AM

I'll say this...

Some folks reading the main post will assume I'm writing it as an endorsement of the team philosophy.

They really shouldn't.

I wrote this as a discussion of how I believe things are. That doesn't necessarily mean I think that's how they should be.

Some things I've read make it sound like the team's pro scouting department has been whittled down to a couple of guys with laptops and a subscription to NFL Sunday Ticket. I'd actually prefer it if the team put just as much - or at least nearly as much - emphasis on pro scouting as it does on college.

Likewise, while I generally do prefer building through the draft, I'm not averse to signing a well paid free agent every now and then. I don't want us to be the Redskins, mind you, and I agree wholeheartedly with the decision to eschew guys with character concerns. But with that said, I don't think the occasional free agent splash is such a bad thing.

Yeah, we've been burned by it before, but that kinda goes back to that whole pro scouting thing, wouldn't you say?

#5 DickolausJ

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:51 AM

I think Hurney and his staff have been one of the best squads at picking up players in the draft in the last 5 years or so. And while I am ready to see Fox go I hope Hurney stays for a long while.

I do think we will sign FAs in the future once the impending lockout has been concluded.

Since this is a team on the rebuild and because we have so many core players we need to resign next year I think it was a good year to be prudent.

Edited by DickolausJ, 17 September 2010 - 01:54 AM.


#6 MadHatter

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:32 AM

In theory, I believe that this management philosophy is correct on a fundamental level, but I do believe that you have to have a certain amount of flexibility to be able to adapt to the situation at hand. You can take a chance every now and then, and still let the core principles of building and promoting from within be your guiding light.


Agree that you do need to pepper in strategic trades and FA's to this philosophy. And, based on the Panthers past history, they have.

This is the first year that we have not brought in at least a couple mid tier FA's....sometimes high priced and highly touted FA's. Problem is that most of those high priced FA moves proved to be mistakes.

I do agree that the lack of moves this season has something to do with the possible impending lockout. JR (and I don't blame him) does not want to be saddled with high priced, but aging veterans if a lockout occurs. If it does, these same players are declining when play resumes. Like it or not, it is a smart move....both financially and long-term.

Based on the young talent we have and the cap space that we will definitely have, the Panthers are in an excellent position for years to come.

Settle in and cheer for the Panthers....we may only be 8-8 or so this season, but it is still a fun ride.

#7 CatMan72

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:56 AM

I never expected the Panthers to go into "big time" free agency signing, but if the goal is to win the superbowl this year I would expect something between big time signings and Wallace Wright being your biggest free agency aquisition...

We all know what our personnel philosophy this year is really about... it's about the lockout.

Edited by CatMan72, 17 September 2010 - 06:58 AM.


#8 rayzor

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:57 AM

f what you are saying is true then the emphasis is going to be more on proving one philosophy of team building is right rather than doig whatever it takes to make the team better, even if it means deviating from their original course.

thats a dangerous way to run a business that doesn't allow for much in the way of growth or staying competitive. when your main goal is to stick to your guns and prove your point, you re going to be fighting against the flow unnecessarily.

i am really not a plan of this philosophy at all. you have to give yourself the freedom to deviate from your plan when needed (and it will be needed) or useful (and it will be useful).

on a side note it makes me wonder how long it takes them to give clausen the job. for a long time it seemed that they wanted to prove that they could be a competitive game without drafting a QB early. this year they did indeed deviate from that plan which shows that they are willing to veer of course slightly (still holding to that building through the draft rather than FA idea).

#9 Stroupe-a-loop

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:02 AM

Richardson has gone cheap this year. I don't think that anybody looking at this team could deny that. But it just isn't a valid criticism to say that he doesn't spend money as an owner. For years, we have been near the salary cap threshold. We went with draft picks and young players this year for a number of reasons; the most obvious of which is Richardson's stance on the lockout.

If you don't like it, I understand and you have every right to be angry, stay home and don't go to the games. But if you are acting like Richardson is a bad owner because he doesn't spend money and always fields a sub-par product every year because of it that is simply wrong. We are building through the draft this year and the team might struggle, but this team had too many questions for us to have committed big money in free agency especially this year with all the labor unrest looming.

#10 CatMan72

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:02 AM

I will say that I agree with the Panthers philosophy in general... wouldn't want to see them become the Skins.

#11 panthers55

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:05 AM

There is no doubt that we have embarked on a strategy of youth-building which on the surface is a sound idea especially from a business and money point of view. Those of us who have complained and I am one of them, did so for a number of reasons which have been documented elsewhere and don't need reiteration. I will point out that change is good unless it is too widepsread and sudden which I have already stated I believe happened and will cause significant growing pains this year.

But I wanted to direct this post to the fact that most folks seem to think the changes and proverbial bloodletting ended this offseason and I am not necessarily in agreement with that. I think that Fox will be gone and the new coach will come in here and do all he can to bring in who he wants. And with all the 1 year contracts out there and expiring contracts, many of the so called core of players could be gone. That could include Williams, Kalil, Moore, and Davis to name a few. If the coach brings in his veteran quarterback or decides Clausen is not the one ( remember how many pundits and teams passed over him twice) he could be traded like Cassel was or simply relegated to back-up status.

There is no way to know if Hurney and the new coach disagree, who will have the most leverage or who is actually pulling the strings right now or in the future. We think we know but who does really? Given I didn't see all the changes last offseason, I might not be a good person to ask about the future since my crystal ball seems on the fritz. But I wanted to point out that while many folks think things will calm down after last year, the other side of the coin is that this ride might just be getting started.

#12 MadHatter

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:09 AM

Richardson has gone cheap this year. I don't think that anybody looking at this team could deny that. But it just isn't a valid criticism to say that he doesn't spend money as an owner. For years, we have been near the salary cap threshold. We went with draft picks and young players this year for a number of reasons; the most obvious of which is Richardson's stance on the lockout.

If you don't like it, I understand and you have every right to be angry, stay home and don't go to the games. But if you are acting like Richardson is a bad owner because he doesn't spend money and always fields a sub-par product every year because of it that is simply wrong. We are building through the draft this year and the team might struggle, but this team had too many questions for us to have committed big money in free agency especially this year with all the labor unrest looming.


Yes, costs are playing a role in his decisions...take the Tank vs hayden vs Landri move.

JR is looking at and saying....is the marginal upside (if any) Tank adds worth 3 times the salary of Landri or Hayden. Reality check...it isn't.

It is easy to sit here and bash, when you are not the one writing the checks.

Like I said...outside a vet #2 WR signing, I agree with EVERY move this team has made so far.

#13 Stroupe-a-loop

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:12 AM

There is no doubt that we have embarked on a strategy of youth-building which on the surface is a sound idea especially from a business and money point of view. Those of us who have complained and I am one of them, did so for a number of reasons which have been documented elsewhere and don't need reiteration. I will point out that change is good unless it is too widepsread and sudden which I have already stated I believe happened and will cause significant growing pains this year.

But I wanted to direct this post to the fact that most folks seem to think the changes and proverbial bloodletting ended this offseason and I am not necessarily in agreement with that. I think that Fox will be gone and the new coach will come in here and do all he can to bring in who he wants. And with all the 1 year contracts out there and expiring contracts, many of the so called core of players could be gone. That could include Williams, Kalil, Moore, and Davis to name a few. If the coach brings in his veteran quarterback or decides Clausen is not the one ( remember how many pundits and teams passed over him twice) he could be traded like Cassel was or simply relegated to back-up status.

There is no way to know if Hurney and the new coach disagree, who will have the most leverage or who is actually pulling the strings right now or in the future. We think we know but who does really? Given I didn't see all the changes last offseason, I might not be a good person to ask about the future since my crystal ball seems on the fritz. But I wanted to point out that while many folks think things will calm down after last year, the other side of the coin is that this ride might just be getting started.


I think anyone would agree that if the teams attempts to retain their own free agents and go get new ones remains at the level that it did this offseason then we can all yell "Shenanigans" and start kicking people in the shins. But to say this is the long term plan seems more than a little abrupt.

#14 Sandy Claws

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:15 AM

Richardson has gone cheap this year. I don't think that anybody looking at this team could deny that. But it just isn't a valid criticism to say that he doesn't spend money as an owner. For years, we have been near the salary cap threshold. We went with draft picks and young players this year for a number of reasons; the most obvious of which is Richardson's stance on the lockout.

If you don't like it, I understand and you have every right to be angry, stay home and don't go to the games. But if you are acting like Richardson is a bad owner because he doesn't spend money and always fields a sub-par product every year because of it that is simply wrong. We are building through the draft this year and the team might struggle, but this team had too many questions for us to have committed big money in free agency especially this year with all the labor unrest looming.


I suspect that we'll end up with a team pay-roll that might even be higher than normal when the gurantees to folks like Jake are added in. Hard to agree to calling that "gone cheap".

#15 Stroupe-a-loop

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 07:18 AM

Yes, costs are playing a role in his decisions...take the Tank vs hayden vs Landri move.

JR is looking at and saying....is the marginal upside (if any) Tank adds worth 3 times the salary of Landri or Hayden. Reality check...it isn't.

It is easy to sit here and bash, when you are not the one writing the checks.

Like I said...outside a vet #2 WR signing, I agree with EVERY move this team has made so far.


I don't agree with a number of moves this offseason, but I think there is a valid excuse and a track record that indicates a way of doing business differently than this a majority of the time.


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