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John Fox's future with the team


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#1 Frash Brastard

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 02:09 AM

Now it's been suggested over and over again that Fox is inept, can't field a consistent winning football team, etc, etc, and it's also been suggested that Fox is a top 5 coach, almost won the superbowl, etc etc etc on this board for so long that I can't remember when anybody had a uniform opinion.

Here's the idea. Fox will not be fired from the Panthers' FO, unless something disastrous happens like a 2-14 campaign in 2009. But to all you Fire Foxes, don't lose hope, because approximately 2 seasons from now, in 2010, Fox's contract expires. That means, Fox could walk away from the team and the FO won't owe him any money.

Let's be honest, the FO is trying to save money. Now whatever reservations or opinions they have about Fox can be swayed by the fact that he's being payed one of the higher contracts for a head coach in the league. It's easy for us to say "Fire him!!!! Blah blah blah" because we're not shelling the money that's directly paying the guy. To us, Fox is a leader of our football team, and when something like that most atrocious display of organized football I've ever seen last Saturday, we have a right to be disgruntled. We have a right to be pissed. We have a right to expect something more. But to the FO, Fox is an investment. Now show me how it makes sense for them to fire a head coach who went 12-4 in his last regular season and that they're going to pay him x amount of millions of dollars a year. They're either going to pay the guy for coaching the team or they're going to pay the guy to not coach the football team. If I know what I think I know they are obligated to pay that amount of money to him no matter what they decide to do, and if i'm wrong, consider this thread moot. But, assuming I'm right, I don't care how rich you are, if you are willing to throw money away here and there pretty soon you're going to end up broke.

Now, he might get extended this offseason, or he might not. Who knows. If he doesn't, a weak 7-9 or 8-8 campaign in 2009 won't get him extended either. 2 seasons in a row like that, or worse, would give the team even less incentive to lock him up. So what that means, is that either Fox is going to win the Superbowl within the next two years, or at the very least, he will walk away from the franchise and the Panthers will dawn on a new era.

Do I have no faith like I said I didn't in Fox last week? Yep, I still feel that. Sadly, as much as I'd like to believe in a cinderella storybook SB win in 2009 or 2010, Fox's refusal to tweak any weaknesses in his system and his utter ignorance and dismissal of improving certain positions he deems "not as important as others" will be his ultimate downfall. And maybe I shouldn't expect anything. That way if they actually do go out there and bring a Lombardi to Charlotte, the victory will be that much sweeter. But in the meantime, his philosophies and beliefs aren't good enough to attract one very important piece of the puzzle to this team, and it basically took a better offer from another team to remove one of his position coaches. The guy wants to win, he just refuses to make the moves when necessary.

Now with all that said, I've got one question to ask: Where the hell is J-Vic? I'd like to see his synopsis on Fox after that playoff loss.

#2 chris999

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:06 AM

i think that the threat of firing fox should be implemented. last year, he was given a short leash, and he and marty improved the team a great deal. do it again this season, and see if he will work on the defensive side of the ball like he did with the offense this past season.

fox is a good coach when he is motivated. i personally think that he is just complacent/lazy. when he gets the mentality that his job is safe, he is a slacker, light a fire under his ass, and he is a pretty good coach IMO.

#3 Jangler

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:28 AM

It is really sad when you have to motivate somebody with losing their job. With the turnover that happens in the NFL, you think that wold be motivation enough.

#4 carpanfan96

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:31 AM

It is really sad when you have to motivate somebody with losing their job. With the turnover that happens in the NFL, you think that wold be motivation enough.


yea you would think that, and for the most part it is. Just most coaches end up in bad situations or drive the players away eventually. Fox on the other hand is always calm and cool. It is what it is.
I see your still changing the Avatar. Nice actually pretty funny who's peppers.

#5 Frash Brastard

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:34 AM

It is really sad when you have to motivate somebody with losing their job. With the turnover that happens in the NFL, you think that wold be motivation enough.


My prominent frustration with Fox, as is with most other people, is that when he can pool his concentration together, he can come up with a damn good hot streak and really put something special together. The problem though, is that he gets complacent the more time goes on and the more glaring the weaknesses get, and if he does decide to make changes at all, he does it after losing, or by the time it's wayyyyyy overdue.

Fox can be brilliant at times, but we need him to be brilliant more often, in order to get this team to the next level and make it reach it's full potential. We need a coach who can do that also.

#6 bigskypanthersguy

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:45 AM

Now with all that said, I've got one question to ask: Where the hell is J-Vic? I'd like to see his synopsis on Fox after that playoff loss.


That's what I've wondered since the move...I've never seen him post here.

#7 ubecool454

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:38 AM

I like John Fox but if the Panthers don't make the playoffs and have a 8-8 or worse record.....your new coach will probably be that guy that spits alot. lol

#8 Frash Brastard

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:55 PM

I like John Fox but if the Panthers don't make the playoffs and have a 8-8 or worse record.....your new coach will probably be that guy that spits alot. lol


I think when it ends with Fox here, both sides are going to be a tad bitter about it. And they won't blatantly express it in the media, but it will manifest itself in subtleties. Fox sounds like the kind of guy who gets pissy when people critique him. You see him get testy in his transcripts when people ask him questions that focus on his body of work, especially after a loss.

#9 Frash Brastard

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 05:57 PM

Wait.

I just thought of something.

When they say 2010 is when his contract expires do they mean 2010's offseason as in next year? or is it after the 2010 season which would be the 2011 offseason, or two years from now?

#10 mantal

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:02 PM

Under fan's take, non-existent.

Under Jerry Rishardson, I'd say a few more years...

#11 ladypanther

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:15 PM

The assistants are only getting 1 yr contracts. Sounds to me like the hot seat is getting warmed up.

#12 Frash Brastard

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:20 PM

Under fan's take, non-existent.

Under Jerry Rishardson, I'd say a few more years...


I'd say if they are going to extend him, it'll most likely happen this offseason. If not, they might be taking a wait-and-see approach, and 2 sub-par seasons like the ones previous to 2008 could convince the FO to let him walk.

#13 King

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:24 PM

Fox needs to go, and I type that without any hate or emotional stake in the matter. He simply cannot take the team to another Super Bowl (let alone win it) with the kind of conservative play-calling that has now cost us two defensive all-stars in Jenkins and Peppers. I wouldn't want these players back either way, but it's hardly comforting when your team is consistently cast into the national light as a bad place for defensive players to go. PR isn't the issue; what's causing the bad PR is.

#14 mantal

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:32 PM

I'd say if they are going to extend him, it'll most likely happen this offseason. If not, they might be taking a wait-and-see approach, and 2 sub-par seasons like the ones previous to 2008 could convince the FO to let him walk.




Naw, silly, Fox isn't going anywhere anytime soon, that's just a fact, might as well get used to it He's produced the best record any coach has had before mpww fpr this organization, he's gold, he'll get his as much as we may hate to admit it. If he can bring us into the playoffs every year, win or not, he will be there, you just gotta understand that and climbe on board, it's just the way it is. If he fails the playoffs, different story, but as long as he puts us in, he'll be heare...

#15 Frash Brastard

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:33 PM

Fox needs to go, and I type that without any hate or emotional stake in the matter. He simply cannot take the team to another Super Bowl (let alone win it) with the kind of conservative play-calling that has now cost us two defensive all-stars in Jenkins and Peppers. I wouldn't want these players back either way, but it's hardly comforting when your team is consistently cast into the national light as a bad place for defensive players to go. PR isn't the issue; what's causing the bad PR is.


I can't help but think what's behind the fact that every season, former players talk subversively about the team.

Peppers feels he isn't being used to his full potential.

Jenkins noted a lack of passion and sense of complacency in the locker room in 2007.

Buckner's been getting digs in and criticizing the coaching staff ever since he retired after 2005.

It's funny everybody didn't trust Keyshawn because he has a big mouth. But I don't remember him saying anything bad about Fox or the FO after he was released. The only thing was the Henning goes, I go ultimatum he gave at the end of the season.

Then Fox says he's never held players back. But if Fox supporters tell us to take everything he says in PC with a grain of salt, why should we believe that?


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