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Interesting note on this year's defense


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#1 Mr. Scot

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:05 AM

From Gantt: Future for Panthers coaches up in the air

About midway through the article...

The name that has garnered the most attention -- at least from an angry fanbase -- is defensive coordinator Mike Trgovac.

His job has been under scrutiny the last two years. The Herald reported in 2007 that coach John Fox had effectively taken over Trgovac's defense meetings early in the season (specifically after a Week 4 loss to Tampa Bay), though Fox denied at the time he was undercutting Trgovac's authority.

"No. Mike knows. He's the defensive coordinator," Fox said then. "He calls them on game day. No different than any coordinator I've had thus far in any phase. I think all our coordinators understand (the input). When you're the head coach, you're allowed to do that."

Several members of the organization (both players and from outside the locker room) confirmed that Fox did a similar thing this year, though it was closer to midseason when he began to exert his influence again.

Considering the defense's second-half collapse (against some of the league's top offenses), Trgovac's future has to be far from secure.

Putting 2 and 2 together, John Fox began paying more attention to the defense around mid-season.

And when did the defense start to decline?

Around the latter part of mid-season :confused5:

Thus, you can take two possible conclusions from this.


A) Fox's input wasn't helpful. Perhaps it was just "too many cooks spoil the broth" or maybe their ideas just didn't mesh well. For whatever reason, it didn't help and may, in fact, have hurt.

or

B) Trgovac was annoyed, resentful, nervous or some other adverse emotion because Fox was sticking his nose in for the second year in a row. These bad feelings affected his job performance in the latter half of the year.


Which of these sounds more plausible?

Edited by Mr Scot, 18 January 2009 - 02:07 AM.


#2 Kyle82

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:09 AM

It's all starting to make sense now........:iagree:

#3 Russell

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:09 AM

From Gantt: Future for Panthers coaches up in the air

About midway through the article...


Putting 2 and 2 together, John Fox began paying more attention to the defense around mid-season.

And when did the defense start to decline?

Around the latter part of mid-season :confused5:

Thus, you can take two possible conclusions from this.


A) Fox's input wasn't helpful. Perhaps it was just "too many cooks spoil the broth" or maybe their ideas just didn't mesh well. For whatever reason, it didn't help and may, in fact, have hurt.

or

B) Trgovac was annoyed, resentful, nervous or some other adverse emotion because Fox was sticking his nose in for the second year in a row. These bad feelings affected his job performance in the latter half of the year.


Which of these sounds more plausible?

B sounds about right. I still would like both...at least Trgovac...to get jettisoned though.

#4 Frash Brastard

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:10 AM

is that why the playcalling was less creative in the second half than in the first?

#5 chris999

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:15 AM

i cant figure it out myself. in 2005, Our CBs played man coverage, and were very physical off the line of scrimmage. that season, we forced more turnovers than any team in the league. what the hell happened? that is the exact opposite of the defense we play now. who changed it fox or trogo?

#6 L.A. Fanatic

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:15 AM

the more we learn about this season the worse it looks

pretty impressive we went 12-4 considering it all now

#7 L.A. Fanatic

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:17 AM

i cant figure it out myself. in 2005, Our CBs played man coverage, and were very physical off the line of scrimmage. that season, we forced more turnovers than any team in the league. what the hell happened? that is the exact opposite of the defense we play now. who changed it fox or trogo?


i know they changed the rules some and that had an effect on it. i do miss the physical play of our CBs. we used to maul WRs back then, especially in 03

i dont think we will ever know who made the bonehead move to go away from this obviously very effective strategy

#8 Mr. Scot

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:22 AM

I know folks will gravitate to option B, but I don't think option A is all that farfetched either.

Think it over a little before you decide.

#9 L.A. Fanatic

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:29 AM

it might have been a mixture of both

#10 Mr. Scot

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:36 AM

Admittedly, in the end, I'd also choose B.

If your boss started spending a lot of time trying to "help" you do your job, how would you react?

#11 outlaw4

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:40 AM

From Gantt: Future for Panthers coaches up in the air

About midway through the article...


Putting 2 and 2 together, John Fox began paying more attention to the defense around mid-season.

And when did the defense start to decline?

Around the latter part of mid-season :confused5:

Thus, you can take two possible conclusions from this.


A) Fox's input wasn't helpful. Perhaps it was just "too many cooks spoil the broth" or maybe their ideas just didn't mesh well. For whatever reason, it didn't help and may, in fact, have hurt.

or

B) Trgovac was annoyed, resentful, nervous or some other adverse emotion because Fox was sticking his nose in for the second year in a row. These bad feelings affected his job performance in the latter half of the year.


Which of these sounds more plausible?

I would say...

C) We have no idea and we never will.


I guess the "loyal to his assistants" argument won't work next season. :lol:

#12 countryboi

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:24 AM

Admittedly, in the end, I'd also choose B.

If your boss started spending a lot of time trying to "help" you do your job, how would you react?


that seems to make alot of sense but maybe fox is just like that...some people like to have to there hands in everything....fox is a defensive coach after all

#13 Sandy Claws

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:59 AM

Admittedly, in the end, I'd also choose B.

If your boss started spending a lot of time trying to "help" you do your job, how would you react?


Then you're making a lot of assumptions and guessing about what is going on in those meeting rooms.

Everybody seems to be going out of their way to put the blame on Trgo. He deserves some. But look at what the article says. Fox got more involved with the D at about the mid point of the season. In the first half of the season, we averaged giving up about 200 ypg passing and 100 ypg rushing (against some of the best RBs in the league). Fox then gets involved and "helps" us get to 230 ypg passing and 140 ypg rushing. Good thing you folks want to keep Fox around to "help" the new DC. He's going to be in great shape with less talent on the D and not much for cap room or draft picks to get any.

#14 Mr. Scot

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 12:10 PM

Then you're making a lot of assumptions and guessing about what is going on in those meeting rooms.

Everybody seems to be going out of their way to put the blame on Trgo. He deserves some. But look at what the article says. Fox got more involved with the D at about the mid point of the season. In the first half of the season, we averaged giving up about 200 ypg passing and 100 ypg rushing (against some of the best RBs in the league). Fox then gets involved and "helps" us get to 230 ypg passing and 140 ypg rushing. Good thing you folks want to keep Fox around to "help" the new DC. He's going to be in great shape with less talent on the D and not much for cap room or draft picks to get any.

I'm going off of what Gantt said based on his sources.

Your take is essentially choice A, which I agree is a valid possibility.

#15 mmmbeans

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 12:17 PM

i know they changed the rules some and that had an effect on it. i do miss the physical play of our CBs. we used to maul WRs back then, especially in 03

i dont think we will ever know who made the bonehead move to go away from this obviously very effective strategy


to be fair, the rules of the game changed.


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