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Getting a new QB or DE shouldn't be our primary move this offseason.


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#16 pantherclaw

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:43 AM

I know the value of DT. That the fact is, we have two starting DT's.

The fact that anyone would suggest going into next season with Brayton and Johnson as our starters, make me question their sanity. Johnson I do feel is ready, but we need someone else.

We need quality depth at the DT position more than we need a starter.

Edited by pantherclaw, 20 January 2009 - 10:06 AM.


#17 stankowalski

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:00 AM

Peppers gone, Brayton and Johnson starting, Turdo still stinking up the sidelines...who can't wait for next season?

#18 panthers55

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:07 AM

I know the value of DT. That the fact is, we have two starting DT's.

The fact that anyone would suggest going into next season with Brayton and Johnson as are starters, make me question their sanity. Johnson I do feel is ready, but we need someone else.

We need quality depth at the DT position more than we need a starter.


Kemo is solid especially against the run. Lewis seems better against the pass and isn't too stout againt the run. Plus Lewis didn't get the pressure I thought he would. We need a stud DT who can upgrade the position. We aren't going to find a guy who is better than Peppers and available so we have to do the best we can. I would like us to get a pass rushing DE and think that if we had a better interior it would help eliminate the double teams as well.

Biggest downside to Lewis is that he is scheduled to count 6.5 million against the cap in 09. Unless we restructure him to better cap numbers, he is clearly not worth that much.

#19 pantherclaw

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:15 AM

Upgrading the DT position isn't going to fix our DE problem.

And we aren't going to find a big upgrade at the DT position anyways. And please don't say Haynsworth ~ as he won't be brought to Carolina as long as Jerry Richardson is alive.

#20 mountainpantherfan

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:06 PM

I don't discount the need for another DE, even a starter. Brayton is actually a good DE and I think he could continue to start and be productive. Johnson is a draft pick that has progressed nicely and should get the oppurtunity to start if/when Peppers leaves. So the question is if we are looking to for someone better than Brayton and Johnson who is that person. The only player in the draft would be the kid from Texas, don't know how to spell his name so I won't even try. Outside of him all the other DEs in the draft seem to be more suited for a 3-4 OLB. As for FA, the only clear upgrade over Brayton or Johnson IMO would be Suggs. So, there are only two players out there either by way of draft or FA that would come in and be an upgrade at the position. If they can get Suggs or the Texas kid I would happy but after that I say you just stick with what you got and hope that Johnson and Brayton can produce at a high level. You never know, Johnson and Brayton might surprise you.

#21 pantherclaw

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:34 PM

Putting all our hopes on Brayton and Johnson is foolish. But anyways....

#22 mountainpantherfan

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:43 PM

Putting all our hopes on Brayton and Johnson is foolish. But anyways....


It could be foolish but like I said who exactly are you going to put hope in? Its not a matter of need but of supply.

BTW, the Giants were all but pronounced dead at DE after lossing Strahan and Osi. But a situational DT/DE and a DE turned LB did outstanding this season. Sometimes you don't know what you got until the situation arises.

#23 VipMattMan

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 04:35 PM

Putting all our hopes on Brayton and Johnson is foolish. But anyways....



It's not exactly ideal, but i feel like an all-star DT with Johnson next to him is more likely to bring positive results than bringing in an all-star DE with Lewis next to him.

From a previous post it looks like you think Brayton is actually the weak link in the Brayton-Johnson equation. Brayton didn't get alot of sacks but i thought he performed fairly well. He disrupted alot of plays and played the run well. If a new starter was brought in i have a feeling that Brayton would still be starting on one side with Johnson continuing to come in on passing situations.

There's no question that we're going to bring in another DE somehow, but if we're going to go out and start doing trades or looking for high-price FA's like some people wanted to do to fill positions, getting a monster DT should be the move that defines our offseason. I do agree with alot of people that if those moves all come down to the draft, with the first rounder we get for Peppers and our 2nd rounder, we should pick the best available players between DT and DE.

#24 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:56 PM

I don't discount the need for another DE, even a starter. Brayton is actually a good DE and I think he could continue to start and be productive. Johnson is a draft pick that has progressed nicely and should get the opportunity to start if/when Peppers leaves. So the question is if we are looking to for someone better than Brayton and Johnson who is that person. The only player in the draft would be the kid from Texas, don't know how to spell his name so I won't even try. Outside of him all the other DEs in the draft seem to be more suited for a 3-4 OLB. As for FA, the only clear upgrade over Brayton or Johnson IMO would be Suggs. So, there are only two players out there either by way of draft or FA that would come in and be an upgrade at the position. If they can get Suggs or the Texas kid I would happy but after that I say you just stick with what you got and hope that Johnson and Brayton can produce at a high level. You never know, Johnson and Brayton might surprise you.


The problem with what your saying is how much of their productivity is due too people paying more attention too Peppers? Really how good would they be if Pep wasn't their and do we really want too find out? They are still trying too give him a very big contract could that be they know what they have in Brayton and Johnson? Do you think that Johnson and Brayton should have done more then 11 sacks and 40 something tackles with a lot of attention going too Peppers. Lets be real Brayton or Johnson never got double teamed or chipped by a TE or RB shouldn't they have put up better numbers then they did? Don't get me wrong I like CJ and was very surprise with Brayton but I shutter at the thought of going into next season with them as the starter. I agree with PC if Pep is truly gone we need more then CJ and Brayton. We need a another starter and a DT to replace what we lose when Pep leaves.

#25 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:06 PM

It's not exactly ideal, but i feel like an all-star DT with Johnson next to him is more likely to bring positive results than bringing in an all-star DE with Lewis next to him.

From a previous post it looks like you think Brayton is actually the weak link in the Brayton-Johnson equation. Brayton didn't get a lot of sacks but i thought he performed fairly well. He disrupted a lot of plays and played the run well. If a new starter was brought in i have a feeling that Brayton would still be starting on one side with Johnson continuing to come in on passing situations.

There's no question that we're going to bring in another DE somehow, but if we're going to go out and start doing trades or looking for high-price FA's like some people wanted to do to fill positions, getting a monster DT should be the move that defines our offseason. I do agree with a lot of people that if those moves all come down to the draft, with the first rounder we get for Peppers and our 2nd rounder, we should pick the best available players between DT and DE.



I also agree with you even though we have 2 starter at DT. 1 (being Lewis) is really at his best coming off the bench. Maybe it was just me but he lost steam and push at the end of the season. Really both of our DT are specialist. Kemo good at the run bad in pass rush and Lewis good at pass rush bad against the run. People may hate too hear this but we need another Jenks good at both who can play all downs. Moving lewis back too his role as a interior pass rusher. Don't get me twisted either we do need a DE if Pep is gone. Really this whole offseason should be about the D. I would be happy with a new starter at DT CB and a new DE if Pep is gone.

#26 chbright

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:11 PM

Rocky Bernard + Terrell Suggs= solid front four.

i wouldnt mind that, rather use a 1st if we get that for pep for bj raji though (hoping to trade with SF).

#27 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:23 PM

bump

#28 OneBadassCat

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:35 PM

I think Brayton will improve over the offseason. Its really the first year in long while that he is at his natural position and he was a pleasant surprise for us this year.

#29 mountainpantherfan

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:59 PM

The problem with what your saying is how much of their productivity is due too people paying more attention too Peppers? Really how good would they be if Pep wasn't their and do we really want too find out? They are still trying too give him a very big contract could that be they know what they have in Brayton and Johnson? Do you think that Johnson and Brayton should have done more then 11 sacks and 40 something tackles with a lot of attention going too Peppers. Lets be real Brayton or Johnson never got double teamed or chipped by a TE or RB shouldn't they have put up better numbers then they did? Don't get me wrong I like CJ and was very surprise with Brayton but I shutter at the thought of going into next season with them as the starter. I agree with PC if Pep is truly gone we need more then CJ and Brayton. We need a another starter and a DT to replace what we lose when Pep leaves.


But who. I'm not saying that an upgrade over Johnson and Brayton isn't needed but who are you going to get? Some rookie better suited for 3-4 olb or another 2nd tier FA. As I've before its not about the need but the supply. Maybe a DE will get released in a cap move but I'm not sure who that might be.

#30 koolkatluke

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:20 PM

But who. I'm not saying that an upgrade over Johnson and Brayton isn't needed but who are you going to get? Some rookie better suited for 3-4 olb or another 2nd tier FA. As I've before its not about the need but the supply. Maybe a DE will get released in a cap move but I'm not sure who that might be.




Brayton was a 4th tier FA so a 2nd Tier might be better for us.


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