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When Jon Fox came to Carolina he wanted to do two things.


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#16 SCpanther

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:04 PM

When talking about mythical Del Rio era, which was really only one season, too many Panther fans forget how immensely talented the D-line and linebackers were. Buckner was still good. Rucker had just reached his prime. Peppers and Jenkins were young, hungry players. We may have really had the best front four in the NFL at that time. The linebackers were pretty good too; with Fields, Morgan, and Witherspoon. That, more than anything else played into the success. Why do you think it carried over into '03, after Del Rio was gone?

The reality is, we haven't had that kind of talent in our front seven for 2 or 3 years now. The linebacker corps may be comparable but none of them are really good blitzers. The front four isn't even close, and as we all know, Trgo and Fox love to rely on the front four for pressure.

#17 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:14 PM

Run the Ball.


Play Physical Defense.




Please tell me how Trgo is a yes man when we played Soft zone and our CBs were a mile from the Receivers the past two years? Thats the Damn exact opposite to Physical Defense right there! This could be the reason why no coaches are getting signed this year..........


Trgo has NO power over Fox. Fox agrees to whatever gameplan his staff brings him OR he offers up suggestions. Fox ultimately approved Bend But Don't Break.

#18 rayzor

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:16 PM

Trgo has NO power over Fox. Fox agrees to whatever gameplan his staff brings him OR he offers up suggestions. Fox ultimately approved Bend But Don't Break.

the fact that they are making no significant changes makes me believe that he has no desire to deviate from that.

anything bad that happens is on his head next year. no excuses will be accepted.

#19 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:18 PM

Hmmm, strong assumption. Someone asked Buck a similar question today on the radio and he said Del Rio's scheme was all zone/cover 2 as compared to Trgo running more man and more blitzing. All of it is attitude, and I am not sure for whatever reason our d-line as whole seems hungry or mean enough to get the job done. Who knows? We definitely don't.


This should be a sticky.

#20 stankowalski

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:20 PM

When I saw the thread title I was almost sure the original post was going to be: Kick ass and chew gum...and he's still got a lot more gum.

#21 thennek

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:23 PM

We may have really had the best front four in the NFL at that time. The linebackers were pretty good too; with Fields, Morgan, and Witherspoon. That, more than anything else played into the success.
The reality is, we haven't had that kind of talent in our front seven for 2 or 3 years now. The linebacker corps may be comparable but none of them are really good blitzers. The front four isn't even close, and as we all know, Trgo and Fox love to rely on the front four for pressure.


I agree 100% with this. The front 4 has not been the same since Buckner, Peppers, Rucker, and Jenkins. This more than anything is the main reason for the decline in the Panthers defense. I actually think the secondary and LB's are better now than in 2003 - 2005 and the front 4 has been the weak link. The Panthers lets some very talented DL players go with Tony Brown (Titans) and Jovan Haye (Bucs) plus they also 'missed' on Ellison, McGlover and I'm sure others I can't remember, and lost Carstans to injury. Poor drafting and poor player evaluation has lead to the decline in the front 4.

#22 2jakefansinva

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:52 PM

Well....if we've been playing man, then it's the worst I've ever seen. If the the 4 lineman can't get pressure.....Blitz. If the LBer's can't blitz properly...blitz a CB or a safety. Find something that works and perfect it. It's not rocket science.

#23 Snake

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:11 PM

Sounds great, when do we start?


We stopped in 04 sorry if you missed it. :thumbsup:

#24 Snake

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:16 PM

Even if Trgo isn't a yes man, do you really think a former defensive coordinator like Fox would allow a scheme he didn't approve of? As you said, they've been running it for a couple years now. If Fox didn't like it then he would have forced changes.




He did. Think about it. Think how we started this year with more blitzes and pressure from other spots then just the 4 Dlinemen then in the second half poof gone. I dont know why but it happened. Even in the half time adjustment with AZ we played a hell of alot better in the second half. Fox is a coach and as much as everyone wants to think dose not have time to come up with a game plan thats why he has coordinators.

#25 Snake

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:19 PM

Trgo has NO power over Fox. Fox agrees to whatever gameplan his staff brings him OR he offers up suggestions. Fox ultimately approved Bend But Don't Break.



He also agrees on Davidson's game plan that worked last year. Im not defending fox I think he is way conservative my self but having good coaches around you has alot to do with it too.

#26 SCpanther

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:51 AM

He did. Think about it. Think how we started this year with more blitzes and pressure from other spots then just the 4 Dlinemen then in the second half poof gone. I dont know why but it happened. Even in the half time adjustment with AZ we played a hell of alot better in the second half. Fox is a coach and as much as everyone wants to think dose not have time to come up with a game plan thats why he has coordinators.


I'm not saying Fox comes up with the game plan, although neither you nor I have enough inside knowledge to really say how involved he is. However, Fox is the head man. Just like my boss, or your boss, he's going to tell his employees when they are doing something he doesn't like. I see no reason to think he would allow Trgovac to continue coordinating the defense in a manner that he didn't approve of.

#27 Snake

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 01:58 AM

I'm not saying Fox comes up with the game plan, although neither you nor I have enough inside knowledge to really say how involved he is. However, Fox is the head man. Just like my boss, or your boss, he's going to tell his employees when they are doing something he doesn't like. I see no reason to think he would allow Trgovac to continue coordinating the defense in a manner that he didn't approve of.





Sometimes its not as simple as approving or not approving something. Yea he can say dont run that play now but as far as a game plane or even coaching of the Defense he cant do all that. Just not possible. Just like your boss cant make everyone do exactly what he wants at the same time. Thats why the right coordinators are so important but at this point if he cant make it work with Trgo he might be gone next year. The writings on the wall with the coaches not getting extensions

#28 SCpanther

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:07 PM

Sometimes its not as simple as approving or not approving something. Yea he can say dont run that play now but as far as a game plane or even coaching of the Defense he cant do all that. Just not possible. Just like your boss cant make everyone do exactly what he wants at the same time. Thats why the right coordinators are so important but at this point if he cant make it work with Trgo he might be gone next year. The writings on the wall with the coaches not getting extensions


If your point were true, and no head coach had time to mess with the game plan, then there wouldn't be any head coaches that called their own plays.

I think a lot of us Panther fans wanted to believe the Fox hype after 2003. The media was making him out to be some kind of genius. Anyway, that's my theory for why people have had trouble holding him accountable ever since then.

#29 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:17 PM

He also agrees on Davidson's game plan that worked last year. Im not defending fox I think he is way conservative my self but having good coaches around you has alot to do with it too.


Davidson's "plan" didn't work too well when Jake was hurt. Davidson has the luxury of having the best running game in the league. If we still had Foster, we wouldn't have done as well. Of course Fox is going to go with the run. It's his philosophy. Both Trgo and Davidson are great coaches...but one is not working with Fox the right way and it's both of their faults.

#30 The Link

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 02:29 PM

Cowher 2010!!!!


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