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#31 panthers55

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:12 AM

There was only one mistake here and cutting the veterans and keeping Fox were all part of it. It wasn't to save money down the road or even save much cap space, it was going on the cheap to save money in 2010 plain and simple.

First of all the idea that we got rid of a bunch of contracts by dumping the veterans that would have hurt us next year or beyond is totally overblown. There were 3 guys who had contracts for 2011 and beyond out of the group of nine starters that were released. Diggs had just been signed to an extension in January of 2010 and then cut 4 months later. Why?? Because when Peppers left the philosophy changed and we gutted the team. Otherwise explain why you would give a guy an extension and then cut him 4 months later in the off-season when there were no injury issues or even draft picks that we made to change the idea of keeping him.

But I digress. Look at Kemo and Lewis, when we didn't give them the bonus in the off-season their contracts reverted to 1 year deals which would have been off the books in 2011. Hoover's contract was up after 2010. Moose would have been fine with a 1 year deal. Jake was going to get paid one way or the other so keeping him wouldn't have hurt at all. Vincent's contract was up as well. Peppers was gone and there was nothing we could have done about it but everyone else was clearly going to be gone after 2010 anyway. So the only other guy who was cut to save perhaps 2-3 million a year was Harris. Please show me all of these bad contracts we cut and all the cap space we saved. It isn't there. Jake, Harris and Diggs were the only guys of the veterans who were cut who were even on the books beyond 2010. And a good case could be made in light of this season that Jake, Diggs and Harris could have helped this team a lot. We cut Jake to help Moore who lasted 2 games, don't have a WLB right now with Beason moving to the middle, and I think even losing a step Harris is much better at strong safety than Godfrey who still looks lost out there half the time.

The reality is that cutting the veterans and not cutting Fox is all the same mistake. The mistake is that Richardson was hell bent on saving money this year not down the road. So cutting most of the veterans was not cutting bad and costly contracts, it was cutting money this year. Keeping Fox was the same thing- saving the 6 million we were going to lose if we paid him.

The fact is that Richardson didn't care what the product on the field looked like. He is saving money and that is frankly all he cares about right now. The apology to the fans crap is about as phony as you can get.

Edited by panthers55, 09 November 2010 - 09:19 AM.


#32 Khyber53

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:24 AM

What we need is someone on their second head coaching job. Most NFL coaches do their best work with the second team they run.

#33 thefuzz

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:29 AM

This model was known by JR, as well as most die hard fans of the NFL.


Cut vet/talent+lame duck coach= really bad season. I can't imagine that anyone thought this would be a playoff team, including the players.

#34 grateflday

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:41 AM

I have said it before and will say it again..... I do not mind this rebuilding, youth movement, etc - what does piss me of is that we should have the new coaching regime being the ones working with this team. It definately appeared the only reason Fox is here was because JR didnt want to pay him 6.5milion plus the salary of a new coach. The only other possibility is there is somebody JR had in mind who either wasnt ready to come this season or couldnt.

For those who thought Fox should have beens shown the door years ago, I was on board with that and have said it for the past two to three season now. This bend dont break, keep it close for three quarters then try to win it in the 4th qtr, no margin for error crap grew old a long time ago for me.

#35 Baschski

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:52 AM

Fox is by no means a bad coach, but the organization and him parting ways is long overdue. I think Hurney will stick around, though. He's not nearly as bad as people here think he is.

#36 Guest_DrewBreesIsGod_*

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:56 AM

I would still prefer a little know coordinator with a big upside that can use Carolina to make a name for himself over the next several seasons. I just wish I had a clue as to who that may be. Someone new to head coaching would instantly bring a tremendous amount of energy to this young team.


Jason Garrett will be on the open market...guaranteed. Many think he's the next McCarthy or Sean Payton. Not his fault Jerry Jones couldn't run an ice cream truck...just sayin

#37 Neylus

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:17 AM

I said this months ago although I believe it was an intentional screw the fans (not a mistake). Of course a lame duck coach is going to likely have a bad season.

What really burns me is that Richardson did this knowing season ticket holders would have to pay-up regardless of what he put on the field.

I think with the PSL situation we have in Charlotte that its fairly un-ethical to pull a cheap-skate as some NFL owners do.

#38 cdandi1

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:34 AM

Time to steal Mr. Scot's shine :lol:



http://www.carolinah...way-season.html


lol at all the "at least we found our franchise qb matt moore."

#39 panther4life

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:56 AM

I think most of us had called for Fox's head for at least a year if not longer, so anyone claiming to be the genius to first suggest the idea is silly to me.

What really rubs me the wrong way is if we knew Fox was on his way out and we were preparing to rebuild and clean house for the next coach is the fact that we sacrificed this years 2nd for armanti who was said to be a project from the beginning. That move was soo dumb that it actually led me to believe that Fox didnt buy into the fact that this would be his last year here.

#40 Mr. Scot

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:32 PM

What we need is someone on their second head coaching job. Most NFL coaches do their best work with the second team they run.

More than one coach has seen big improvement on their second (sometimes third) job. Bill Belichick would probably be prime example. There's also Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, Marv Levy and others. Sometimes they just need to learn from their mistakes.

Of course, there's the flipside. Guys like Norv Turner, Herm Edwards, Dom Capers, Rich Kotite, etc. It's no guarantee.

Potential retreads from this season would be guys like Marvin Lewis, Eric Mangini, Lovie Smith, Brad Childress, Chan Gailey and our old buddy Jack Del Rio.

Edited by Mr Scot, 09 November 2010 - 12:36 PM.


#41 Fiz

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:23 PM

it's not fair to put belichick in that group.

The Browns moving to Baltimore wasn't exactly his fault.

#42 GRWatcher

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:32 PM

There was only one mistake here and cutting the veterans and keeping Fox were all part of it. It wasn't to save money down the road or even save much cap space, it was going on the cheap to save money in 2010 plain and simple.

First of all the idea that we got rid of a bunch of contracts by dumping the veterans that would have hurt us next year or beyond is totally overblown. There were 3 guys who had contracts for 2011 and beyond out of the group of nine starters that were released. Diggs had just been signed to an extension in January of 2010 and then cut 4 months later. Why?? Because when Peppers left the philosophy changed and we gutted the team. Otherwise explain why you would give a guy an extension and then cut him 4 months later in the off-season when there were no injury issues or even draft picks that we made to change the idea of keeping him.

But I digress. Look at Kemo and Lewis, when we didn't give them the bonus in the off-season their contracts reverted to 1 year deals which would have been off the books in 2011. Hoover's contract was up after 2010. Moose would have been fine with a 1 year deal. Jake was going to get paid one way or the other so keeping him wouldn't have hurt at all. Vincent's contract was up as well. Peppers was gone and there was nothing we could have done about it but everyone else was clearly going to be gone after 2010 anyway. So the only other guy who was cut to save perhaps 2-3 million a year was Harris. Please show me all of these bad contracts we cut and all the cap space we saved. It isn't there. Jake, Harris and Diggs were the only guys of the veterans who were cut who were even on the books beyond 2010. And a good case could be made in light of this season that Jake, Diggs and Harris could have helped this team a lot. We cut Jake to help Moore who lasted 2 games, don't have a WLB right now with Beason moving to the middle, and I think even losing a step Harris is much better at strong safety than Godfrey who still looks lost out there half the time.

The reality is that cutting the veterans and not cutting Fox is all the same mistake. The mistake is that Richardson was hell bent on saving money this year not down the road. So cutting most of the veterans was not cutting bad and costly contracts, it was cutting money this year. Keeping Fox was the same thing- saving the 6 million we were going to lose if we paid him.


This is half of THE big mistake JR made. The other half was to set things in motion to spend as close to nothing in 2011 as possible.

All thoughts & actions have a starting point and this was it. No tenders were made for more than 1 year. Not even the 2 coaches we signed were offered longer than 1 year contracts. They haven't extended any current players.

JR had no choice but to keep John Fox, apparently he didn't think there was anyone else on staff that could do it. No other head coach possibility with any talent would agree to sign a 1 year contract. Why would they with all the CBA uncertainty? I talked about this last spring, JR didn't have many choices because of bad decisions he had already made. And he stubbornly plowed forward.

The fact is that Richardson didn't care what the product on the field looked like. He is saving money and that is frankly all he cares about right now. The apology to the fans crap is about as phony as you can get.

I can not ever believe that anyone in the organization ever thought the Panthers would be this bad. I do doubt, however, if JR ever thought that he was fielding a playoff team. His first thought was saving money. I'll accept his apology when he gives me money back for this year's season tickets.

Some how, some way, I'm wondering if Danny Morrison didn't come in with tall tales of how he pulled off such a "cleansing of the soul" once.

And don't ever, ever compare what JR did this year to how the Steelers or Packers handle their team. Neither team has ever handled their personnel this badly. What JR has done is insulting to the entire NFL. It's our players who will suffer the most. My livelihood is not dependent upon what JR does.

#43 beach

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 02:04 PM

I'm at the point where I'm already over this season. We suck and you can't continue to look to the past trying to figure out who is to blame anymore. We WILL have a new coach next year, we WILL have a young team with loads of potential, and Fox WILL be gone. So, I'm staying positive about next year and not thinking about how much this season already sucks when we all should have realized this. I'll admit I had expectations of maybe an 8-8 year, but I'm over that. Let's bask in being at the bottom of the league right now so it will feel damn good next year with a new coach, new QB, new offense, & a completely new feel.

Yeah, we can all continue to write up very eloquent posts about who's to blame and all, but that gets this fan base nowhere. I will continue to root for my team this year, but not constantly look for someone to blame for the walls crashing down when we happen to lose.

2011 = tabula rasa

2010 = Soak in the suckiness, let's have fun with it

Edited by Beach, 09 November 2010 - 02:12 PM.



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