Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Correct me if I am wrong...


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
108 replies to this topic

#61 Cavscout

Cavscout

    HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,497 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:12 PM

Recent stats probably will show that you don't have to be top ten in just ONE category, but rather at least in the top half of the league at both running the ball and passing the ball on offense and likewise good at stoping both on defense, good at special teams, and have a low turnover ratio.

Therefore one can surmise that you would need both a good QB AND a good running game on offense. Since we have a good running game, it just makes sense to get a QB who can actually throw the ball farther than three yards like Clausen.

#62 TheRealDeal

TheRealDeal

    Senior Member

  • TROLLOLOL
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,418 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:12 PM

thats one year. give me stats for the last 5 years and then we can agree on something.
:D just trying to make u do more work.


Me?

I don't mind doing the work but like I've said before I'm not a big fan of stats because they don't show the whole picture, like SF and Houston having top 10 run defenses but in reality it's only because they can't stop the pass. Intelligent people know which teams can run and stop the run. I only posted the stats because other people live and die by them.

#63 Squirrel

Squirrel

    Drink a beer and relax

  • ALL-PRO
  • 12,881 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:20 PM

Posted Image


So if someone is speaking negatively about Luck they have to be trolling? Why? Id it because he is the second Peyton Manning? Zod brings up very good points. I think alot of people need to step back and stop slurping.

#64 Dpantherman

Dpantherman

    certified pee-on

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,475 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:23 PM

Only thing is, this happens every year. Its not the first and won't be the last. What if we draft him and he busts? What if we don't draft him, and we miss out? What if we draft him, and he does well?

#65 pantherj

pantherj

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,965 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:27 PM

Here is a pretty good look at Luck, and not just a highlgiht reel.



#66 Erik Stall

Erik Stall

    Member

  • NEWB
  • PipPip
  • 93 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:29 PM

I don't know where you got your numbers but they are wrong.

Again, I'm not saying you have to be top 12 in both categories to make the playoffs but the really good teams are good at both of those things (with few exceptions).

You just pointed out that 50% of the teams are in the playoffs with top 10 run games and 80% are in contention. You also pointed out 50% of teams have clinched in the top 10 at run stopping and 60% are in contention (in reality SF and Houston shouldn't count because they only have good numbers due to terrible pass defenses 24 and 32 respectively).

For comparision, top 10 passing offenses:

1. Indy - In contention
2. NO - Clinched
3. SD - Eliminated
4. Dallas - Eliminated
5 GB - In contention
6. Houston - Eliminated
7. Denver - Eliminated
8. Philly - Clinched
9. NYG - In contention
10. Wash - Eliminated

Only 20% of the top 10 has clinched and only 50% is in contention.

What would you take, 50% clinched and 80% contention or 20% clinched and 50% contention?


I got my numbers from NFL.com. I clicked on "stats" and sorted by team total rushing yards. That doesn't include the Philadelphia/Minnesota game, but that will just further my point. Minnesota is sitting 85 yards behind Atlanta for #10 in rushing offense. Neither team should fall out in rush defense.

And why shouldn't SF and Houston not count just because they can't stop the pass? SF is #2 in yards per attempt and Houston is #7. You don't get to cherry pick stats just because they don't fit your argument.

And you totally missed my point about the QBs. Like I said, they may not put up numbers but they know how to not screw up. Guys like Kyle Orton can put up numbers but no one will ever accuse him of being a good QB.

Recent stats probably will show that you don't have to be top ten in just ONE category, but rather at least in the top half of the league at both running the ball and passing the ball on offense and likewise good at stoping both on defense, good at special teams, and have a low turnover ratio.

Therefore one can surmise that you would need both a good QB AND a good running game on offense. Since we have a good running game, it just makes sense to get a QB who can actually throw the ball farther than three yards like Clausen.


But I think you hit the nail on the head here.

#67 Montsta

Montsta

    Rest In Peace

  • ALL-PRO
  • 7,109 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:36 PM

So if Luck stinks it up January 3rd and Newton destroys Oregon January 10th, do the Huddle servers explode?

#68 TheRealDeal

TheRealDeal

    Senior Member

  • TROLLOLOL
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,418 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:36 PM

I got my numbers from NFL.com. I clicked on "stats" and sorted by team total rushing yards. That doesn't include the Philadelphia/Minnesota game, but that will just further my point. Minnesota is sitting 85 yards behind Atlanta for #10 in rushing offense. Neither team should fall out in rush defense.

And why shouldn't SF and Houston not count just because they can't stop the pass? SF is #2 in yards per attempt and Houston is #7. You don't get to cherry pick stats just because they don't fit your argument.

And you totally missed my point about the QBs. Like I said, they may not put up numbers but they know how to not screw up. Guys like Kyle Orton can put up numbers but no one will ever accuse him of being a good QB.



But I think you hit the nail on the head here.


I said if you looked closely at SF and Hou you would see why they are in there, not that they don't count, which is why I left them in there when calculating my percentages.

But you didn't answer my one question for you (probably because the answer didn't fit my argument)

What would you take, 50% clinched and 80% contention or 20% clinched and 50% contention?


Again, if this is a passing league and it's all about QBs and all the rule changes favor passing the ball and running the ball is dead and blah blah blah...

What would you choose? What odds would you take if you were building a playoff team year in and year out?

#69 Erik Stall

Erik Stall

    Member

  • NEWB
  • PipPip
  • 93 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:53 PM

I said if you looked closely at SF and Hou you would see why they are in there, not that they don't count, which is why I left them in there when calculating my percentages.

But you didn't answer my one question for you (probably because the answer didn't fit my argument)



Again, if this is a passing league and it's all about QBs and all the rule changes favor passing the ball and running the ball is dead and blah blah blah...

What would you choose? What odds would you take if you were building a playoff team year in and year out?


That's the 2nd time you missed the point. It's not about accumulating stats considering the fact that Kyle Orton of all people is up there in YPG. It's about those guys I named being good QBs, winning games and giving their teams the best chance to win.

In any case, I never ever said running the ball is dead. In fact:

Yeah, you need to be able to run the ball but most of these teams don't have an elite runner, but they almost all have top QBs.


That was my point. Not that passing is more important than rushing or anything like that. You're just putting way too much stock into a correlation that doesn't exist between running the ball well and success. The key to winning, now, is having a good QB. He doesn't have to put up mindblowing stats, because that's not the be all end all of being a good QB, but he can't just be a "game manager" anymore.

#70 CLTPanther

CLTPanther

    This Space for Rent

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,950 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:57 PM

So if Luck stinks it up January 3rd and Newton destroys Oregon January 10th, do the Huddle servers explode?


No, Zod will create a Cam Newton News and Updates thread stickied

#71 pstall

pstall

    Gazebo Effect

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,000 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:58 PM

i think the stats of running vs passing might be off base some. I'm willing to bet those near the top in 3rd down conversions and stops are in the playoffs.

#72 TheRealDeal

TheRealDeal

    Senior Member

  • TROLLOLOL
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,418 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:18 PM

That was my point. Not that passing is more important than rushing or anything like that. You're just putting way too much stock into a correlation that doesn't exist between running the ball well and success. The key to winning, now, is having a good QB. He doesn't have to put up mindblowing stats, because that's not the be all end all of being a good QB, but he can't just be a "game manager" anymore.


I think you have your words mixed up. There is most definitely a correlation. I think what you meant was that correlation does not mean causation.

So you must have a good QB. This QB doesn't need to put up mind blowing stats he just can't make mistakes (sounds like game manager). Then you say he can't be a game manager.

I think you are running yourself in a circle because your point makes as much since as the statement that Jimmy Clausen was the most NFL ready college QB (both brought to you by ESPN and both false).

You list the QBs and say the RBs aren't elite but it's only to the casual fans that know QBs and not RBs. It's only casual fans that can't differentiate stats between when a QB has a good run game and when he doesn't. You see Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco as elite QBs. I see them as game managers that have the benefit of run games and defenses. You see Big Ben as elite but they went 3-1 without him on the strength of their run game and defense. I can go on about this but the fact is you won't see it because ESPN already told you it's a QB league.

#73 Erik Stall

Erik Stall

    Member

  • NEWB
  • PipPip
  • 93 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:21 PM

i think the stats of running vs passing might be off base some. I'm willing to bet those near the top in 3rd down conversions and stops are in the playoffs.


Not sure if you're serious, but:

Top 10 3rd down conversion defenses:

1. New England - In
2. Tennessee - Out
3. Buffalo - Out
4. Tampa - Outside looking in
5. Cleveland - Out
6. Houston - Out
7. Seattle - Outside looking in
8. Jacksonville Outside looking in
9. Dallas - Out
10. Atlanta - In

Top 10 3rd down conversion offenses:

1. New Orleans - In
2. Atlanta - In
3. New England - In
4. San Diego - Out
5. Indianapolis - In
6. Tampa - Outside looking in
7. Green Bay - Inside for now
8. Pittsburgh - In
9. Dallas - In
10. Jacksonville Outside looking in

#74 Cavscout

Cavscout

    HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,497 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:23 PM

Not sure if you're serious, but:

Top 10 3rd down conversion offenses:

1. New Orleans - In
2. Atlanta - In
3. New England - In
4. San Diego - Out
5. Indianapolis - In
6. Tampa - Outside looking in
7. Green Bay - Inside for now
8. Pittsburgh - In
9. Dallas - In
10. Jacksonville Outside looking in


Nice guess

I bet they all have Franchise QB's also, don't they?

#75 TheRealDeal

TheRealDeal

    Senior Member

  • TROLLOLOL
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,418 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:32 PM

Nice guess

I bet they all have Franchise QB's also, don't they?


Dallas isn't in. Again that's 80% of teams are in contention which is the same as the rushing numbers.

Teams that run the ball well often have shorter 3rd downs to complete.


Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com