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#76 Erik Stall

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:37 PM

I think you have your words mixed up. There is most definitely a correlation. I think what you meant was that correlation does not mean causation.

So you must have a good QB. This QB doesn't need to put up mind blowing stats he just can't make mistakes (sounds like game manager). Then you say he can't be a game manager.

I think you are running yourself in a circle because your point makes as much since as the statement that Jimmy Clausen was the most NFL ready college QB (both brought to you by ESPN and both false).

You list the QBs and say the RBs aren't elite but it's only to the casual fans that know QBs and not RBs. It's only casual fans that can't differentiate stats between when a QB has a good run game and when he doesn't. You see Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco as elite QBs. I see them as game managers that have the benefit of run games and defenses. You see Big Ben as elite but they went 3-1 without him on the strength of their run game and defense. I can go on about this but the fact is you won't see it because ESPN already told you it's a QB league.


Where's the correlation? 50% doesn't mean correlation. Just because several teams are "in contention" as of the writing doesn't mean that they'll be in the playoffs next week. And numbers are subject to change anyway (hint, 11-20 rushing offenses include 2 playoff teams and 8 already eliminated)

I don't see Flacco as elite, I'm pretty sure I stated multiple times that he shouldn't be included. I do see Ryan and Roethlisberger as elite, as does pretty much anyone who watches football. Steelers went 3-1 without him, yes, but take a closer look: they beat extremely overrated Atlanta, Tampa who's only win over a team >.500 is against St. Louis, Tennessee who sucks and they lost to Baltimore. Ryan isn't called Matty Ice for nothing.

What I AM saying is that the best QBs are in the playoffs, or will be in the playoffs. He doesn't have to just "not screw up". He has to make the plays when it counts. He has to audible correctly and lead his team. Immeasurables. Hilarious that you think I'm an ESPN bot when I've hated Clausen since day 1 despite their love for him. I've watched plenty of football to know what I'm talking about without having to be told by ESPN.

Nice guess

I bet they all have Franchise QB's also, don't they?


I screwed up Dallas, yeah, they're out. But yes, excluding Jacksonville, they all have franchise QBs.

Dallas isn't in. Again that's 80% of teams are in contention which is the same as the rushing numbers.

Teams that run the ball well often have shorter 3rd downs to complete.


Unless I suck at counting again only 4 of those teams show up on the top rushing offenses list this year. 5 show up on your top passing offenses, FWIW.

#77 TheRealDeal

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:55 PM

If Ryan is elite how did he get beat by a third string QB?

What's that? The other team had a strong running game and defense?

Since when is St. Louis over .500?

Matt Ryan sure showed why he should be called Matty Ice last night huh? (Hint: I'm guessing they called him that in HS and college because that's what college kids drink, Natty Ice but the national media can't say that). He had to put together 1 drive all game, all game, all Friggin game and he couldn't do it. Ice running through his veins no doubt about it.

It's comical that when you kick the crutch out from under him he folded and people still call him elite. Manning has never had that crutch and he is elite, Brady is elite, Rodgers is elite, Rivers is elite, Vick is playing elite, Brees is elite. That's it. Everyone else NEEDS the run game and defense to help win games. Even the elite guys struggle sometimes without it.

#78 Erik Stall

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:04 PM

If Ryan is elite how did he get beat by a third string QB?

What's that? The other team had a strong running game and defense?

Since when is St. Louis over .500?

Matt Ryan sure showed why he should be called Matty Ice last night huh? (Hint: I'm guessing they called him that in HS and college because that's what college kids drink, Natty Ice but the national media can't say that). He had to put together 1 drive all game, all game, all Friggin game and he couldn't do it. Ice running through his veins no doubt about it.

It's comical that when you kick the crutch out from under him he folded and people still call him elite. Manning has never had that crutch and he is elite, Brady is elite, Rodgers is elite, Rivers is elite, Vick is playing elite, Brees is elite. That's it. Everyone else NEEDS the run game and defense to help win games. Even the elite guys struggle sometimes without it.


Guess I can't count again. Thought for some reason St. Louis was 8-7. Point still stands.

You don't want to call Ryan elite, fine, you're entitled to that. In any case, I never called anyone but Roethlisberger and Ryan elite. The guys you named are, then there's a second tier that includes the other guys I listed, then there's everyone else. Whatever term you want to throw around, point still stands that these are the best QBs in the league in whatever order you want to throw around, and they're almost all in the playoffs.

Also, I never said the running game and defense aren't needed--you sure do love to put words in my post that aren't there. All I'm trying to say is that you can't win without a QB anymore. Brees and Manning made the Superbowl last year. Before that it was Warner and Roethlisberger. Unless they have a super strong running game and defense, I can't imagine seeing a team led by a Jake Delhomme or Brad Johnson in the Super Bowl any time soon.

Let's just agree to disagree without picking apart tiny bits and corners of every post.

#79 HPPantherzfan

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:12 PM

But Luck faced a top 20 defense once this season.

He was 29 of 46, 241 yards, 2 scores, 2 picks.


Not saying the kid is not a legit NFL QB, but seriously, most of you are completely delusional with how much you are building him up.


How many did Newton play against?

#80 koolkatluke

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:32 PM

Real are you still trying too find away 2 keep your boy "Matty Nice" on this team? With this argument? Elite Qb can cover up for a lot of bad things on a team. It's nice to have a blance team and all but the way the NFL going with rule changes that help the passing game and scoring you need a good 2 great QB 2 win constantly.

#81 grateflday

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:33 PM

...... I am not so certain Moore or Clausen are not good enough to be game managers.


:mad2: Good enough?? Is that what we are going to settle for? And what franchise has ever been consistently good with a game manager?? Enough of this mindset. How often is this franchise going to be in the position to draft a potential franchise QB. Not very often I hope. And if Luck does not declare and whomever the next coach is, and our GM think Newton, Mallet, Locker or other can be a franchise guy then they have to take one of those. If not at #1, then maybe trade down, get another pick and take one.

:beatdeadhorse5: to good enough and settling for a game mananager. :beatdeadhorse5:

#82 koolkatluke

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:44 PM

:mad2: Good enough?? Is that what we are going to settle for? And what franchise has ever been consistently good with a game manager?? Enough of this mindset. How often is this franchise going to be in the position to draft a potential franchise QB. Not very often I hope. And if Luck does not declare and whomever the next coach is, and our GM think Newton, Mallet, Locker or other can be a franchise guy then they have to take one of those. If not at #1, then maybe trade down, get another pick and take one.

:beatdeadhorse5: to good enough and settling for a game mananager. :beatdeadhorse5:


I agree i get tried of people wanting Game mang. and not a elite QB. Why do people want 2 be avg. at that position?

#83 kunu

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:45 PM

Excuse me for being interested in how he faired against non QB stat padding defenses.

VT is a top 20. Game is Jan 3. I think every panther fan will be watching.


I will be at the 50 yard line...should be one hell of a game

I am really interested to see how he does against Hosley and company who are the higlight of VTs D this year.

#84 Fox007

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:46 PM

How many did Newton play against?


At least 3:

Alabama, LSU, Clemson


(and Miss State is 27th)

#85 MHS831

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:53 PM

Zod's comment is perhaps the only thing I have heard that could be negative or cast doubt on Luck. If that is all, pick Luck.

#86 Jangler

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:12 PM

we should just roll with Clausen.

#87 jtnc

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:18 PM

we should just roll with Clausen.


Sarcasm right?

#88 ElkinPanthersFan

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:21 PM

Armanti Edwards was 17/23 for 227yds and 3td's passing and rushed for 62 yards and another td against then #5 Michigan in 2007 and the general consensus is that he is not an NFL caliber quarterback.

What does this mean? That looking at individual game statistics as a barometer for success is foolish and is just a shallow way to justify a fake argument.



AE outplayed Michigan compared to Pickles with less starts. Though I wish AE would be given a shot at QB in a game.

The only time I hope to see Clausen start ever again is in a backup role. Nothing more.

#89 Frash Brastard

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:33 PM

assuming playing a tough schedule with tough defenses in college (lol) is what determines
who is a bust and who is not. I mean by that conclusion every QB from a big school should've made it

#90 LaChance87

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:33 PM

the way the league is shifting/changing......game managers ain't enough. You need a legit NFL QB. How many teams in our division have QBs in to simply "not lose" games.


Exactly! Besides the NFC West, which teams that are heading to the playoffs or are contenders, have just a game managing QB? NONE! Every one of them teams have a QB that can air it out. Its useless to have a great running game and have a mediocore passing game.
Just for example I think of Greenbay, they have no running game. Aaron Rodgers dominates secondarys just about every week. Basically all defenses have to do is stop him and they can. Last year our rushing offense was at the top of the leauge and still no playoffs... They've gotten it together towards the end of this year, but its not enough. Need to be able to pass the ball.
This leauge is changing and if this organization want to have playoff appearences again, then its time for a change. Need a quarterback that'll can throw for 3 or 4 thousand yards if needed to.
With a Quarterback like that this whole team will get better. Recievers will shine, running game will be alot better, Defensive will be able to rest to all them to have better play. Although what would help defense play better is a DT to break up the pocket! Thats a big priority on defense.


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