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Stimulus Bill is a Sham.


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#16 venom

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:06 AM

That's right, giving money to rich people who say they need it is believable, while this is just pork for Democratic supporters.


all the bailout's/stimulus plans were bad news.

#17 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:08 AM

I would like to remind everyone here that even though the New Deal did make an awful lot of jobs building infrastructure, the Republicans still could not find anything they liked about it. I can understand that from a philosophical point of view, but it tells me nothing has changed and nothing will change in terms of the majority and the "loyal opposition".


actually now the republican line tends to be that the new deal actually prolonged the great depression, slowing recovery efforts made my hoover, and if you ask them to explain exactly how that makes sense, they usually just far in a paper bag and run in a circle.

or they'll say that the second world war was what really got us out of the depression, a period of time marked by extensive shrinking of the government, tax cuts, out of control private consumption, and total free market friedmanism.

#18 Jase

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:08 AM

I would like to remind everyone here that even though the New Deal did make an awful lot of jobs building infrastructure, the Republicans still could not find anything they liked about it. I can understand that from a philosophical point of view, but it tells me nothing has changed and nothing will change in terms of the majority and the "loyal opposition".


You talk about the new deal as if it actually, you know, worked.

Edited by Jase, 30 January 2009 - 10:11 AM.


#19 Jase

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:10 AM

or they'll say that the second world war was what really got us out of the depression...


Uh, most historians agree on this. :rolleyes:

#20 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:12 AM

Uh, most historians agree on this. :rolleyes:


what from my post makes you think i don't

#21 Jase

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:16 AM

I just assumed that since you referred to it as the "republican line", that you disagreed with it.

#22 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:20 AM

I just assumed that since you referred to it as the "republican line", that you disagreed with it.

you missed the point

#23 venom

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:22 AM

I would like to remind everyone here that even though the New Deal did make an awful lot of jobs building infrastructure, the Republicans still could not find anything they liked about it. I can understand that from a philosophical point of view, but it tells me nothing has changed and nothing will change in terms of the majority and the "loyal opposition".


the new deal was worthless

#24 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:23 AM

There is zero support from republicans on this bill.

what from the past eight years indicates to you republican support is a good thing?

Without the rich, the people have no power. Without the rich, there is no private sector. Without the rich, the government becomes larger and takes more control of your life.

please explain, citing good sources and quotations from people generally perceived to be knowledgeable about the subject, how this will get rid of the rich.

Also please prove causation between decline in "rich" and increase in government size and "control of life"

#25 venom

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:34 AM

please explain, citing good sources and quotations from people generally perceived to be knowledgeable about the subject, how this will get rid of the rich.

Also please prove causation between decline in "rich" and increase in government size and "control of life"


its basic knowledge. the upper class are the business owners, and job creators. The upper class are the ones who pay for you and i to live. These 40% of americans are the only tax payers in the nation. If you take power away from the rich, you are essentially taking power away from the people.

Look how the government is trying to get involved in all these coporations. Theyre giving these business' all sorts of money, and are asking for nothing in return. Issues like banning guns and universal health care are more ways to lessen the power of the people, thus giving the government more control.

c'mon people. this is easy to understand. if the rich goes down, we all go down.

#26 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:53 AM

its basic knowledge. the upper class are the business owners, and job creators. The upper class are the ones who pay for you and i to live. These 40% of americans are the only tax payers in the nation. If you take power away from the rich, you are essentially taking power away from the people.

why do you designate 40% of americans rich?

Look how the government is trying to get involved in all these coporations. Theyre giving these business' all sorts of money, and are asking for nothing in return.

aren't the corporations run by the rich? aren't handouts just a kind of tax break?

also which corporations exactly are getting handouts?

Issues like banning guns and universal health care are more ways to lessen the power of the people, thus giving the government more control.

how do you rationalize this against gun free countries like france, britain, and greece in europe where the people have far more power, protest much more often, replace their governments when they fail, live longer and healthier and are generally better educated?

Also, referring to something as "basic knowledge" is a pretty vibrant red flag that you don't have any backing evidence.

Edited by Fiz, 30 January 2009 - 10:55 AM.


#27 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:00 AM

btw my family is actually in the top ten percent.

at parties we sit around with other landed gentry and laugh that the proles like you think we have your best interests at heart.

#28 venom

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:29 AM

why do you designate 40% of americans rich?

aren't the corporations run by the rich? aren't handouts just a kind of tax break?


yea you caught me on that one. meant to say that only 40% of americans pay taxes. in this economy, taxes increases will kill a lot of that figure, leaving a very small percentage of americans to provide the funding for this country.

yes, corporations are run by the rich. however, running a inept business is a drain on the economy. dont give them any more money, let them go under. there are still thousands of potential job providing businesses out there.

also which corporations exactly are getting handouts?


GM, Bank of America, McAfee, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, etc. Handouts are not the same as a tax break, and should not be given to these companies who are at risk of going under. If they ran their business' irresponsibly, they deserve to go bankrupt.

how do you rationalize this against gun free countries like france, britain, and greece in europe where the people have far more power, protest much more often, replace their governments when they fail, live longer and healthier and are generally better educated?


the fact that you would even ask this question puzzles me. america is by far the free-est society in the world. our constitution grants us more rights than any other nation on the planet. to say that the people in europe have more freedom and power than us is incorrect. also, the amount or extent to which an individual can protest, has nothing to do with how much power they have.

explain "replace their governments when the fail"

Also, referring to something as "basic knowledge" is a pretty vibrant red flag that you don't have any backing evidence.


its how the economy works, i didnt think i would have to spell out a concept based on common sense. the private sector is the only thing that sets us apart from the government. the private sector is the power of the people, it is our only stronghold. without the private sector, all jobs will be government run and managed. if you take power away from the rich, all private citizens suffer.

england is a perfect example of a country in shambles. with the new gun control laws in effect there, crime has gone up 40%, there are 300,000 illegal firearms floating around in the country amongst its criminals, and the people are completely helpless.

i wouldnt say europeans are smarter/healthier than americans, thats just ridiculous.

ps. why do liberals always gotta hate on americans?

Edited by venom, 30 January 2009 - 11:44 AM.


#29 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:44 AM

GM, Bank of America, McAfee, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, etc. Handouts are not the same as a tax break, and should not be given to these companies who are at risk of going under. If they ran their business' irresponsibly, they deserve to go bankrupt.

GM aside, how many people are employed by BoA, McAfee, F&F? it's not as though the proles are employed by the financial sector.

the fact that you would even ask this question puzzles me. america is by far the free-est society in the world.

not really

our constitution grants us more rights than anyone else in the world.

what? no it doesn't. with the exception of expressed rights to bear arms if you form a militia, it's almost identical to every other western constitution.

to say that the people in europe have more freedom and power than us is way off.


also, the amount or extent to which an individual can protest, has nothing to do with how much power they have.

as evidenced by oh say the last century, i would say that protests have effected far more change in their countries than, say, america's elections every 4 years and sitting on their hands the rest of the time.

just so you know, in the 20th century, the two largest government actions, the new deal and the civil rights movement, were in response to.......what?

im sure you'll be able to figure out the second. i doubt you'll get the first since you don't know anything about eugene debbs or the american communist movement.

explain "replace their governments when the fail"

do you really need parliamentary democracy explained to you.

if you take power away from the rich, all private citizens suffer

once again, can you prove this?

england's is a perfect example of a country in shambles.

lol yeah england is really hanging on by a thread.

i wouldnt say europeans are smarter/healthier than americans, thats just ridiculous.


im on a heavily restricted internet at work but jesus christ how dense can you be

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#30 Fiz

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:45 AM

ps. why do liberals always gotta hate on americans?


ps im not a liberal


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