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Is the QB the only thing anyone cares about anymore?


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#106 ElkinPanthersFan

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 02:46 PM

go get a room u 2


My room is filled with your promised virgins once you ascend.

#107 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 02:53 PM

I said without much help. There is a big difference between the two.



Alright, but my point still stands. If we had a team like the Patriots, where we were so well rounded, and had their chemistry, that we can just put in our back-up and finish 11-5.....isn't that so much better than having a top-tier QB?

I'd personally want to figure out how to build THAT. And yes I understand it all stand with the QB, but every year there's a hot new rookie QB, and the fact always remains, that no QB is ever truly elite until they prove themselves in the NFL.

They only become elite after they accomplish something in the NFL, and no matter how good you performed in college, it can always go either way. I say get Luck if we can, and if we can't, just move on and start looking at our other problems.

But with us using so many draft picks on QBs year after year, there is no way that's not going to affect the rest of the team as a whole in the long run. I say build the team, as a whole, and I think eventually the QB piece will fall into place as well.

#108 mav1234

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:05 PM

"year after year"? Did I miss something? I feel like last year was the first time we've taken a QB in ages... Seems like it'll be two years.

If Andrew Luck bombs and we end up with the first pick again I doubt we take another QB.

You can try to claim the Patriots would go 11-5 every year without Brady, but as someone in Massachusetts I can tell you that you are simply wrong and are basing that off of one season that is NOT a good representation of anything. Brady is as integral to that team's continued success as their coaches.

#109 mav1234

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:09 PM

the bottom line is that this team desperately needs a quarterback upgrade. when you have the chance to get such a gigantic upgrade, and a face of the franchise that could really excite fans as well, you do it. it's not our only need, not many of us are saying that, but when healthy and with a good quarterback this is a respectable team. a few more pieces in the draft, a good quarterback, good veteran FA acquisitions and this WILL be a good team. It's not just about taking any QB we could, but in part, it is about Luck.

right now, the upside of Luck is greater than any other pick. so thats why we're so big on him. Have you watched him at all?

#110 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:25 PM

the bottom line is that this team desperately needs a quarterback upgrade. when you have the chance to get such a gigantic upgrade, and a face of the franchise that could really excite fans as well, you do it. it's not our only need, not many of us are saying that, but when healthy and with a good quarterback this is a respectable team. a few more pieces in the draft, a good quarterback, good veteran FA acquisitions and this WILL be a good team. It's not just about taking any QB we could, but in part, it is about Luck.

right now, the upside of Luck is greater than any other pick. so thats why we're so big on him. Have you watched him at all?


Once again, I'm not against drafting Luck at all Mav. I think we would be crazy not to do it. I'm just surprised how that's basically the only thing being talked about other than the coaching situation. We have known all year, and once again I maintain, QB was just one of the many big problems on our team last year. Heck, it wasn't even the biggest if you ask me.

There are so many other things that should be addressed, and I believe they should be addressed before the draft, not after. There's gotta be some other guys in there that we should be taking a look at, as well as free agency that could drastically improve our team as a whole.

Collectively, I believe finding 4 or 5 good guys to bolster our O-line, WR, CB and special teams, will go a lot further in making us a better overall team, than a top tier QB will.

Put it this way, Andrew Luck with the same team we just had and the inevitable rookie jitters will probably give us very similar results. Clausen or Moore, now with some experience under their belt, with the addition of those 4-5 guys that we need at the positions mentioned above, along with a good all around coaching staff, would get us a lot further next year.

But that's just my opinion.

#111 mav1234

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:31 PM

We have no second round pick. We have no idea what contract situations will be because of the CBA. The draft is a long ways away; many of the top FAs are still even playing for the team.

Right now the only sensible things to talk about are coach and draft, and imo, draft is an easy one. There are more posts about coach right now than Luck I think, or at least as many :P


There is no place to go but up really so you are right, if we improved every area of need we needed to but QB the team would get better. The point many of us are trying to make is that we want to do more than just get better, but become competitive year in and year out.

#112 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:40 PM

We have no second round pick. We have no idea what contract situations will be because of the CBA. The draft is a long ways away; many of the top FAs are still even playing for the team.

Right now the only sensible things to talk about are coach and draft, and imo, draft is an easy one. There are more posts about coach right now than Luck I think, or at least as many :P


There is no place to go but up really so you are right, if we improved every area of need we needed to but QB the team would get better. The point many of us are trying to make is that we want to do more than just get better, but become competitive year in and year out.


Well I want the same thing, I just believe you can only attempt to start at the QB position so many times, before you have to begin approaching it another way and from a different direction.

It's just too risky going after the top QB prospects year after year, and then when they don't pan out, you are left without a competitive team. Let's not kid ourselves again. While Luck does appear to be a better candidate than Clausen, not even he's safe from becoming a bust in the NFL. And what if that happens? We try again next year? In the mean time suffer through 2-14, 3-13, or heck even 7-9 seasons?

There has to be a way to rebuild WHILE remaining competitive and I think bolstering our team as a whole at a variety of positions with good and young talent(doesn't even have to be the best) is key. Another repeat of last year would be a disaster.

And at best, even if we get Luck and even if he has a fantastic rookie year, if we don't give him some additional help, can you honestly expect him to fare much better than Sam Bradford did with the Rams?

I don't, and frankly I WOULD be disappointed with us finishing 7-9 next year. Again it's a scenario where we have to take him if he's available, but given the choice I would easily take quantity of above average quality at various positions.

#113 Dpantherman

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:42 PM

Why be afraid to take risks?? This team should be doing everyone in their power to find our franchise QB

#114 TheRealDeal

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:45 PM

Why be afraid to take risks?? This team should be doing everyone in their power to find our franchise QB


Who do you have to do around here to get a franchise QB huh?

#115 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:45 PM

Why be afraid to take risks?? This team should be doing everyone in their power to find our franchise QB


It's not about being afraid to take risks. But as some point, even if that risky move pays off, you have to ask yourself if its even worth it anymore if it means neglecting everything else.

At some point isn't just better to go for the sure thing like the Eagles did and go for a proven QB, with life left in him that can immediately give you results? I'm sure it would cost no more than a #1 draft pick, but at least you know what you get when you pay for him.

#116 Raleighcat83

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:53 PM

So if you don't think QB wasn't even the biggest problem on the team last year, what was? Would a stud DT or a pro bowl RG or a really good #2 WR do more to imrove the Panthers' record than a good QB? Would replacing Jeff King with an all pro tight end bring us more wins than replacing Clausen with a star quarterback? I know, Luck isn't guaranteed to be a star quarterback, but then again, when you draft or sign defensive tackles or tight ends they aren't guaranteed to be good either. Those of us that talk about QB all the time think it's the most important position and that we're terrible at it. We had a talented team in 09 and it was derailed by a QB that threw everything to the other team. We had a little talent last year, and a QB that threw everything away, or into the ground, or just took a sack. Quarterback has to be fixed first.

#117 Raleighcat83

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:59 PM

It's not about being afraid to take risks. But as some point, even if that risky move pays off, you have to ask yourself if its even worth it anymore if it means neglecting everything else.

At some point isn't just better to go for the sure thing like the Eagles did and go for a proven QB, with life left in him that can immediately give you results? I'm sure it would cost no more than a #1 draft pick, but at least you know what you get when you pay for him.


Except it's not really a sure thing, that's why Vick was the backup going into the season. The Redskins thought McNabb was a sure thing. Dante Culpepper seemed like a sure thing in Miami a few years ago. So did Favre in New York. The idea that free agents are less risky than draft picks is incorrect, lots of free agents, at all positions, are busts.

#118 PanthersPhan18

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 04:08 PM

Am I the only person here that remembers us getting to a superbowl with a scrub QB that played in Europe and being 3 points away from winning it all? Seriously, doesn't anybody care about having an all around solid team anymore? I'd rather have a great supporting cast that can make the QB's job easier no matter who's back there.

I'd rather have a dominating O-line like we did in the past, a dominating run game and a defense that can stop opponents. Now I'm not saying I want us to be one dimensional all over again, but I don't want to TRADE one thing for another.

If we do that, then that's exactly what we're going to be. Except this time, it will be reversed. I don't want to go from being the one dimensional Panthers to the one dimensional Chiefs.

It seems like we are still having the same conversations we've been having for the past two years, and almost identical to those of last year, just a different cast. What about the rest of our positions?



Admit it, you just want to see Matt "Montana" Moore as Carolina's starter in 11.

#119 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 04:10 PM

So if you don't think QB wasn't even the biggest problem on the team last year, what was? Would a stud DT or a pro bowl RG or a really good #2 WR do more to imrove the Panthers' record than a good QB? Would replacing Jeff King with an all pro tight end bring us more wins than replacing Clausen with a star quarterback? I know, Luck isn't guaranteed to be a star quarterback, but then again, when you draft or sign defensive tackles or tight ends they aren't guaranteed to be good either. Those of us that talk about QB all the time think it's the most important position and that we're terrible at it. We had a talented team in 09 and it was derailed by a QB that threw everything to the other team. We had a little talent last year, and a QB that threw everything away, or into the ground, or just took a sack. Quarterback has to be fixed first.


If you want me to place it in order, I personally thought it was like this:


1. Inconsistency at ALL LEVELS
2. Lack of leadership from veteran players especially on offense
3. Lack of protection by our O-line
4. Lack of a solid WR threat(We had one guy, and then that one guy had his worst year)
5. Inability to return the run game to form and make it a threat
6. HORRIBLE special teams play, especially throughout the first 6 games.
7. Coaching fiasco
8. QB(includes turnovers).
9. Playcalling
10. Inconsistent defense.(Gave up the big play when we needed them most)

That's how I would rank it.

Some may say play-calling was a bigger factor, and while I agree it sucked, its execution was far worse than its conception.

If we fix number 8, while not taking care of 1-7, I expect another similar record to 2-14. If we fix 1-7, even if we don't fix number 8, and go with the same guys, I still think we can have a shot at a winning season.

#120 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 04:14 PM

Admit it, you just want to see Matt "Montana" Moore as Carolina's starter in 11.


Honestly, no. I don't care who starts. Like I said last year, Matt Moore was the best man for the job, and whoever that guy is this year, that's who needs to start for this team. That will be sorted out in training camp. Matt was clearly the best man for the job last year, and that's why I supported him, and I continue to believe that no coach is so freaking stupid that would start anyone BUT the best man for the job.

It doesn't matter who the QB is under center, I will support whoever we get back there when kick-off starts, but I honesty do not believe it will make a difference, whether its Luck, Moore, Clausen or even an off-season vet, if we don't fix the other things I talked about.


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