Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Justify why Cam Newton isn't worth #1 overall?


  • Please log in to reply
391 replies to this topic

#196 Vagrant

Vagrant

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,174 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:34 PM

white mans guilt? good lord, kid. you are a failed piece of work.

small minded people never cease to amaze me, esp. racist ones.

keep everyone in their nice little boxes so your silly little paradigm can be kept safe.


It isn't small mindedness, it's simple logic. Black quarterbacks are more often than not mobile quarterbacks. This mobility is a blessing and a curse. As opposed to developing normally by taking their lumps on bad reads, black quarterbacks are able to scramble and make plays with their feet that negate poor reads. Thus, it is looked at as a positive play on film the next day because it gained yardage. As a result, they're more inclined to make the same play next time out.

Once they arrive in the NFL, the scramble is no longer a viable option unless your athleticism is out of this world like it was in the case of Vick..... but Vick was a one in a lifetime talent.

Black quarterbacks are never baptized by fire. They never have to learn the position because they can bail themselves out with their feet. This is applicable in almost every case, but people are so afraid of sounding offensive that they ignore the clear and present facts.

You don't have to spend your weekends with your head buried in a playbook if you can go out there and tap dance all over the opposing defenses without ever having to make a difficult throw because college defenses cannot cope with your athleticism.

Call me racist if you want, but race is a factor and always will be a factor until white athletes catch up to black athletes in the athleticism department and all races are developed according to the same standards.

#197 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 38,469 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:41 PM

It isn't small mindedness, it's simple logic. Black quarterbacks are more often than not mobile quarterbacks. This mobility is a blessing and a curse. As opposed to developing normally by taking their lumps on bad reads, black quarterbacks are able to scramble and make plays with their feet that negate poor reads. Thus, it is looked at as a positive play on film the next day because it gained yardage. As a result, they're more inclined to make the same play next time out.

Once they arrive in the NFL, the scramble is no longer a viable option unless your athleticism is out of this world like it was in the case of Vick..... but Vick was a one in a lifetime talent.

Black quarterbacks are never baptized by fire. They never have to learn the position because they can bail themselves out with their feet. This is applicable in almost every case, but people are so afraid of sounding offensive that they ignore the clear and present facts.

You don't have to spend your weekends with your head buried in a playbook if you can go out there and tap dance all over the opposing defenses without ever having to make a difficult throw because college defenses cannot cope with your athleticism.

Call me racist if you want, but race is a factor and always will be a factor until white athletes catch up to black athletes in the athleticism department and all races are developed according to the same standards.

The kind of thing you're talking about isn't the fault of the players themselves. It's their coaches.

You have one or two guys like Jim Tressel and Bill Stewart who are willing to teach their guys to be passers first, but most college coaches care more about their own jobs than the future jobs of their players. Thus, they do what works at the college level, but in the process they make it tougher for their QBs to have a future in the pros.

Until that changes, the situation won't improve.

#198 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,539 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:43 PM

I think the fact that Newton comes from a Spread offense will hurt his chances more then any. Alex Smith hurt any others Spread QBs chances of being picked #1. It really dose not matter what he dose at his pro day or the combine if Teams think he cant take a snap under center.

#199 Johnny Kilroy

Johnny Kilroy

    Kilroy Kicks Butt

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,648 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:53 PM

I think the fact that Newton comes from a Spread offense will hurt his chances more then any. Alex Smith hurt any others Spread QBs chances of being picked #1. It really dose not matter what he dose at his pro day or the combine if Teams think he cant take a snap under center.


So do people have the same concerns about Gabbert who ran the Spread at Mizzou and is not nearly as athletic?

#200 Sloth

Sloth

    idk

  • ALL-PRO
  • 2,629 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:54 PM

So do people have the same concerns about Gabbert who ran the Spread at Mizzou and is not nearly as athletic?


Absolutely.

#201 Vagrant

Vagrant

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,174 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:58 PM

The kind of thing you're talking about isn't the fault of the players themselves. It's their coaches.

You have one or two guys like Jim Tressel and Bill Stewart who are willing to teach their guys to be passers first, but most college coaches care more about their own jobs than the future jobs of their players. Thus, they do what works at the college level, but in the process they make it tougher for their QBs to have a future in the pros.

Until that changes, the situation won't improve.


What we have here is a chicken vs. egg scenario regarding which came first between the athletic spread offense quarterback against the stereotype of athletic (read: mostly black) quarterbacks should be coached a certain way to maximize their success. It ultimately doesn't matter in the end WHY these athletic quarterbacks are developmentally left behind, it only matters that they ARE. I don't think it makes me racist to point out that fact.

If you spend your entire high school and college career playing football a certain way because your coach endorses that play style and you enjoy playing it and then find out at the professional level that there was a WHOLE different game going on in the defensive backfield than you ever knew, you're going to be totally blindsided.

Quarterbacks that are supposedly at a natural athletic disadvantage start learning that game much earlier in their career and by the time they're ready for the NFL, they usually know how to read a defense if they're going to be worth a damn at the next level. 5% instincts, 95% repetition that most black quarterbacks never get in the repetition department. Watch the evolution of players like Steve McNair and Michael Vick. How many reps did it finally take for them to get the amount of reps they needed to trust their reads and use their arm strength and accuracy to make plays instead of their feet all the time? All of that ability was learned on an NFL salary.

Vince Young is in the same boat. He's not a lost cause, he's just going through the natural progressions of a QB that is having to make that harsh adjustment from dictating the defense to having to adjust his style to the defensive approach. He'll get there eventually, but it's going to take more time and more reps. JaMarcus Russell, if not for being a total fat ass, would have had a similar learning curve. These guys weren't inherently busts by talent. They had the talent, they just didn't have the patience and their organizations shared the sentiment.

Racism? Yeah right. More like a player that plays pitch and catch for his entire organized football career is not going to adapt to professional football as quickly as a player that by result of poor mobility has had to conquer defenses mentally and through repetition as opposed to pure skill.

#202 R0CKnR0LLA

R0CKnR0LLA

    Drunk Posting

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,122 posts
  • LocationLas Vegas, NV

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:06 AM

Posted Image

#203 jdogg66

jdogg66

    The Man

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:12 AM

no to cam....if you want cam that bad then just sign vince young for a whole lot cheaper....your gonna get the same player

#204 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,642 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:13 AM

I would agree that it will take some time for a guy like Newton to learn the nuances of the pro game. The question is whether we will take the time or just put him out there and let him run instead of pass because he is the number 1 pick and we need some excitement versus grooming him for the long term. Lets remember that Vick started right away and said he never was taught what to do in Atlanta. Vince Young went to the pro-bowl his rookie year bt has played little since then.
Newton is a very talented guy who could end up being one of the best in the NFL if he is developed and nurtured rather than thrown out there right away and not taught the game. Whether he succeeds or fails will be a function of how he is developed as much as how he embraces the game and works hard.

#205 TylerVagyler

TylerVagyler

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,050 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:13 AM

Cam Newton, to me, is 10x the player Young was at this point in his career.

#206 jdogg66

jdogg66

    The Man

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:16 AM

Newton is a very talented guy who could end up being one of the best in the NFL if he is developed and nurtured rather than thrown out there right away and not taught the game. Whether he succeeds or fails will be a function of how he is developed as much as how he embraces the game and works hard.


we dont need a 2 or 3 year project at qb.....you all want to win now, as i do, but you want to draft a project....nah....screw that

#207 scarface

scarface

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,063 posts
  • LocationEastern NC

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:18 AM

Posted Image


I want to lick her for some reason.

we dont need a 2 or 3 year project at qb.....you all want to win now, as i do, but you want to draft a project....nah....screw that

....and who the f*ck are we going to draft to win right now. Clausen & every QB in the draft besides Luck are projects.

Edited by scarface, 07 January 2011 - 12:22 AM.


#208 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,539 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:19 AM

we dont need a 2 or 3 year project at qb.....you all want to win now, as i do, but you want to draft a project....nah....screw that


What QB in the draft do you see that is not a Project Player? Or what QB in FA do you see that is a starter? Face it were are not going to turn around in one year and win it all. We are going to have slow growth at this point.

#209 Jangler

Jangler

    Its gonna be just like they say, them voices tell me so

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 47,184 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:21 AM

Yeah, everybody saying Luck is NFL ready... No QB is NFL ready. A year ago the same assholes were saying Clausen was NFL ready.

#210 Snake

Snake

    swagaholic

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,539 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:24 AM

Yeah, everybody saying Luck is NFL ready... No QB is NFL ready. A year ago the same assholes were saying Clausen was NFL ready.


This is so true and the only QB I have seen in a long time have great early success was Ryan. Even Eli took 3 years to develop.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com