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Are you happy with the hiring of Ron Rivera?


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#61 chris999

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:55 PM

i picked "mainly so". he was one of my favorite candidates, but only time will tell if he is the right guy or not.

i think that a good OC is harder to come by than a good DC, so i was kinda hoping that we would hire an offensive coach, and then bring in a talented DC and give him the reigns for the defense. but overall, i dont think that we could have done much better.

#62 Darth Bobo

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:55 PM

Wouldn't you like to see a proven Head Coach that has a full grasp of offense and defense run this team just once? I would.

Richardson is cheap and that's why we let 8 starters walk in 2010, leaving Fox, the veterans and the fans holding the bag. Furthermore he can barely get two words out of his mouth during the press conference. He needs to enjoy the rest of his life and his new heart away from the NFL. It's time for Richardson to move on!

Actually, no. I do not want to see a head coach that is contradicting the Offensive Coordinator. I want to know (for once) that the offensive coordinator is the guy calling the plays, and taking responsibility for them when they work or don't. Under Fox, none of us ever knew whether our monotonous and totally predictable offense was being held back by Fox or by Davidson. None of us really knows, do we? That's why Richardson had no choice but to fire Fox this time, because Davidson goes out with him.

I prefer to hear that a recent DC named HC is going to defer to the expertise of a proven OC. That shows me he isn;t going to try to push a square peg into a round hole, that he isn't going to be a hinderance to the OC the way Fox was (or at least the way Fox let us believe he may have been, by not correcting the problem where it stood midseason).

As for Richardson being cheap, again I think you're dead wrong. For many years Richardson kept our budget near the salary cap, proving he is not afraid to spend when it makes sense to do so. This 2010 year was all about gaining financial leverage, in the present against the NFLPA and in the future against the other teams in this league that chose to keep their spending in the danger zone (~120m). Can you not see how our "youth movement" (eliminating top heavy contracts) in 2010 would give rookies a chance to develop (and pay off) sooner than they would behind overpriced but faithful veterans? Can you not see how being this far under the future salary cap(70m~80m) gives the Panthers organization enough room to redesign any of our current player's contracts as we see fit, while at the same time leaving enough room to sign on a playmaker when other rosters are shedding in compliance with the future CBA's reduced cap?

My jaw drops when people try to say Jerry isn't being aggressive enough to run a competitive NFL football team. Panthers fans have never seen such brutal precision in trimming the fat being executed from above. Richardson is hell bent on turning this team around, enough so that he fired his own sons to change the culture of the Panthers.

Sure, we fans were not entertained in 2010, it was indeed a sacrificial or lame-duck year, but if you think Richardson made those kind of sacrifices without calculating a very significant and material advantage in the future, then you just haven't looked at the facts we have closely enough, and don't really seem to understand our owner as a human being and former football player either.

Richardson went for the throat and bystanders got hurt in the process, you can blame him for that, but he is going to win this fight with the NFLPA one way or another. Don't make a fool of yourself by betting against him.

Edited by Darth Bobo, 12 January 2011 - 04:58 PM.


#63 MadHatter

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 06:08 PM

The average for a starting head coach is $2 million, but the 32 team average for a head coach, meaning the AVERAGE of all the coaches salaries in the league is $3.25.

Pointing out that the average for starting head coaches is $2 million only goes to show what an idiot Richardson is for paying $2.8, but the real problem I have is why not hire a $3.25-$7 million dollar proven head coach? The fact is Fox became too expensive and was costing Richardson $6 million per year. Richardson is looking for a cheap option that will get the team through the collective bargaining year, plus a little further or until Rivera proves himself and demands a $6 million salary like Fox.

Rivera sounds like a great guy, but if you listened to the press conference you heard him say he would be defensive minded and would rely on an OC to be aggressive, but that he would not be running the offense. Wouldn't you like to see a proven Head Coach that has a full grasp of offense and defense run this team just once? I would.

Richardson is cheap and that's why we let 8 starters walk in 2010, leaving Fox, the veterans and the fans holding the bag. Furthermore he can barely get two words out of his mouth during the press conference. He needs to enjoy the rest of his life and his new heart away from the NFL. It's time for Richardson to move on!


Dumbest fuging logic I have ever heard.

Take a quick look at the HC's of the playoff teams this year. With the exception of Seattle, every one of them were coordinators before their gig.

Re-tread coaches seldom find anywhere near the success at their subsequent teams. Their failure rate is only second to college coaches making the jump to the NFL.

You are the typical person who just want a big name....without havign any idea how to find and hire young and agressive coaches.

#64 carpanfan96

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 06:39 PM

Yes I am, its at least change and he isn't Fox. His presser was awesome and he seems like the kinda coach carolina needs right now.

#65 bleys

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 06:48 PM

The average for a starting head coach is $2 million, but the 32 team average for a head coach, meaning the AVERAGE of all the coaches salaries in the league is $3.25.

Pointing out that the average for starting head coaches is $2 million only goes to show what an idiot Richardson is for paying $2.8, but the real problem I have is why not hire a $3.25-$7 million dollar proven head coach? The fact is Fox became too expensive and was costing Richardson $6 million per year. Richardson is looking for a cheap option that will get the team through the collective bargaining year, plus a little further or until Rivera proves himself and demands a $6 million salary like Fox.

Rivera sounds like a great guy, but if you listened to the press conference you heard him say he would be defensive minded and would rely on an OC to be aggressive, but that he would not be running the offense. Wouldn't you like to see a proven Head Coach that has a full grasp of offense and defense run this team just once? I would.

Richardson is cheap and that's why we let 8 starters walk in 2010, leaving Fox, the veterans and the fans holding the bag. Furthermore he can barely get two words out of his mouth during the press conference. He needs to enjoy the rest of his life and his new heart away from the NFL. It's time for Richardson to move on!


Fox is only gone because he cost too much? you eat paint chips as a kid?

I see what you're looking for when you say why not get a coach in the 3-7 mil range.. Because your logic is similar to buying a Ferrari and getting a Ferrari.. this isn't merchandise though..

You are getting a Coach who you hope turns out to be a Ferrari.. what he was before you buy him, you have no idea..

funny thing is most coaches in the 3-7 range (retreads) turn out to be Toyotas.. but you're willing to ignore that stat for some reason?

Edited by bleys, 12 January 2011 - 06:51 PM.


#66 riddel

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:55 AM

This is 2008's top paid coaches....couldn't find a new list....

1
Mike Holmgren Seattle Seahawks 60 NFC West $8,000,000
2
Mike Shanahan Denver Broncos 56 AFC West $6,000,000
3
Jeff Fisher Tennessee Titans 50 AFC South $5,500,000
4
Lovie Smith Chicago Bears 50 NFC North $5,500,000
5
Bill Billichick New England Patriots 56 AFC East $5,000,000
6
Tony Dungy Indianapolis Colts 53 AFC South $5,000,000
7
Tom Coughlin New York Giants 62 NFC East $4,250,000
8
Jon Gruden Tampa Bay Buccaneers 45 NFC South $4,000,000

I'd say the best teams in the league for 2008 are represented here and 5 out of the 8 are retreads Head Coaches, 2 (Bellichick and Fischer) coming up as coordinators but being with their teams for YEARS and Lovie being the only newer coach on the list.

So the 5 of the top 8 coaches in 2008 are retreads and paid the most money in the NFL ALL won superbowls and their teams consistantly make the playoffs. Tell me again who is eating the paint chips?

A proven head coach can take a team very quickly ala (Bill Parcells) and turn it into a winner. Carolina got very lucky with Fox and more times than not, unproven head coaches wash out. That list is way too long to list, but let's just assume, 1 out of 4 coordinators turns into a decent coach and I'm sure that is very generous.

Rivera seems like a great coach, but he hasn't proven squat and the Panthers need a guy that has been there and done it. Why can't we shell out the money for a proven guy, rather than train another head coach (Capers, Fox)? Rivera won't get the $6 million that he deserves in 4 years even if he does prove to be the guy. He will simply be let go and we will move on to the next defensive coordinator.

Oh yeah and for the guy saying the head coach doesn't need to be involved with the offense, tell that to Bellichick, Shanahan and Gruden.....can you say SUPERBOWL? Well all three of them can and they know exactly how to game plan for all three phases of the game (special teams, defense, offense for you paint chip eaters). A defensive coach is exactly that. Are you guys really this excited about a guy who says he wants nothing to do with the offense? What are we paying the guy for if he is not over all phases of the game? Oh that's right, we aren't paying him but $2.8 million or $450,000 less than then NFL average......wow.

You guys keep drinking the coolaid. I'm good without.

#67 riddel

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:03 AM

Why is Fox gone?

Because Richardson is cheap and wanted leverage during the collective bargaining agreement. It's really that simple.

Fox's salary was $6 mill per year. How was Richardson going to negotiate with the players when his coach made a top 10 salary. So, what does Richardson do? He allows 8 starters to walk, with NO compensation and then replaces them with rookies and backups. Then he tells Fox to deal with it. Fox was screwed, the veterans were screwed and the fans were screwed.

Richardson screwed us all. Now he's gone cheap again and all you cool aid drinkers think he's found the next great Head Coach. Well, Rivera missed out on 8 other head coaching jobs for a reason, so why is he than man now? Oh, I know, the price was right!

#68 Future Of The Franchise

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:06 AM

i picked "mainly so". he was one of my favorite candidates, but only time will tell if he is the right guy or not.

i think that a good OC is harder to come by than a good DC, so i was kinda hoping that we would hire an offensive coach, and then bring in a talented DC and give him the reigns for the defense. but overall, i dont think that we could have done much better.


the question isn't whether or not he's the right guy. it's whether or not you're happy he was hired.

#69 MadHatter

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:14 AM

Why is Fox gone?

Because Richardson is cheap and wanted leverage during the collective bargaining agreement. It's really that simple.

Fox's salary was $6 mill per year. How was Richardson going to negotiate with the players when his coach made a top 10 salary. So, what does Richardson do? He allows 8 starters to walk, with NO compensation and then replaces them with rookies and backups. Then he tells Fox to deal with it. Fox was screwed, the veterans were screwed and the fans were screwed.

Richardson screwed us all. Now he's gone cheap again and all you cool aid drinkers think he's found the next great Head Coach. Well, Rivera missed out on 8 other head coaching jobs for a reason, so why is he than man now? Oh, I know, the price was right!


Fox is gone because he had 3 fuging winning seasons out of 9!!!!! It has nothing to do with money.

Damn son, you are fuging dense. Better hurry along now, I hear the short bus coming down the street.

#70 panthers55

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:17 AM

This is 2008's top paid coaches....couldn't find a new list....

1
Mike Holmgren Seattle Seahawks 60 NFC West $8,000,000
2
Mike Shanahan Denver Broncos 56 AFC West $6,000,000
3
Jeff Fisher Tennessee Titans 50 AFC South $5,500,000
4
Lovie Smith Chicago Bears 50 NFC North $5,500,000
5
Bill Billichick New England Patriots 56 AFC East $5,000,000
6
Tony Dungy Indianapolis Colts 53 AFC South $5,000,000
7
Tom Coughlin New York Giants 62 NFC East $4,250,000
8
Jon Gruden Tampa Bay Buccaneers 45 NFC South $4,000,000

I'd say the best teams in the league for 2008 are represented here and 5 out of the 8 are retreads Head Coaches, 2 (Bellichick and Fischer) coming up as coordinators but being with their teams for YEARS and Lovie being the only newer coach on the list.

So the 5 of the top 8 coaches in 2008 are retreads and paid the most money in the NFL ALL won superbowls and their teams consistantly make the playoffs. Tell me again who is eating the paint chips?

A proven head coach can take a team very quickly ala (Bill Parcells) and turn it into a winner. Carolina got very lucky with Fox and more times than not, unproven head coaches wash out. That list is way too long to list, but let's just assume, 1 out of 4 coordinators turns into a decent coach and I'm sure that is very generous.

Rivera seems like a great coach, but he hasn't proven squat and the Panthers need a guy that has been there and done it. Why can't we shell out the money for a proven guy, rather than train another head coach (Capers, Fox)? Rivera won't get the $6 million that he deserves in 4 years even if he does prove to be the guy. He will simply be let go and we will move on to the next defensive coordinator.

Oh yeah and for the guy saying the head coach doesn't need to be involved with the offense, tell that to Bellichick, Shanahan and Gruden.....can you say SUPERBOWL? Well all three of them can and they know exactly how to game plan for all three phases of the game (special teams, defense, offense for you paint chip eaters). A defensive coach is exactly that. Are you guys really this excited about a guy who says he wants nothing to do with the offense? What are we paying the guy for if he is not over all phases of the game? Oh that's right, we aren't paying him but $2.8 million or $450,000 less than then NFL average......wow.

You guys keep drinking the coolaid. I'm good without.


http://www.sportsbus.../article/116188


New NFL coaches with no head coach experience average 2 million a year.

#71 MadHatter

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:21 AM

Oh yeah and for the guy saying the head coach doesn't need to be involved with the offense, tell that to Bellichick, Shanahan and Gruden.....can you say SUPERBOWL? Well all three of them can and they know exactly how to game plan for all three phases of the game (special teams, defense, offense for you paint chip eaters). A defensive coach is exactly that. Are you guys really this excited about a guy who says he wants nothing to do with the offense? What are we paying the guy for if he is not over all phases of the game? Oh that's right, we aren't paying him but $2.8 million or $450,000 less than then NFL average......wow.

You guys keep drinking the coolaid. I'm good without.


Gruden took a Dungy team to the SBowl....and then the team got worse every season after that.

Shanahan rode Elways coat tail.....how is that Shanahan hiring going in DC? Not so good.

#72 Shermdog

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:26 AM

I accidentally answered no on the poll but of the options he was at the top of my list. I am very excited about Rivera!

#73 riddel

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:31 AM

Fox is gone because he had 3 f**king winning seasons out of 9!!!!! It has nothing to do with money.

Damn son, you are f**king dense. Better hurry along now, I hear the short bus coming down the street.


Prior to Richardson raping of the team in 2010 Fox had a .555 winning percentage or 71-57 and was 5-3 in the playoffs. He had three winning season one superbowl, two NFC championships and one divisional playoff. He had two .500 seasons and three 7-9 seasons.

Now if you're trying to say John Fox is a bad coach, then you need to check into rehab, because you're a crackhead.

It was time for Fox to move on, because Richardson is a buffoon and self imploded his team in 2010 all in the name of collective bargaining. If Richardson had given Fox the tools he needed, then all you haters would be firmly implanted up Foxes anus again.

Richardson killed Fox this year. He did it intentionally. Why can't anyone see this? By the way, .555 winning percentage lands Fox very near the top 30 coaches of all time of coaches who have coached 100 or more games. Yes. I said ALL TIME.

Hatter......Call 1-800-NOCRACK

#74 riddel

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:35 AM

Gruden took a Dungy team to the SBowl....and then the team got worse every season after that.

Shanahan rode Elways coat tail.....how is that Shanahan hiring going in DC? Not so good.


Crackhead!

Gruden beat Oakland in the superbowl....the team he coached prior to winning with Tampa!

Shanahan is in the top 10 coaches of all time at .672 and Elway was only there for half his career. Denver has was always great with Shanahan there. Are you really gonna give Shanahan a hard time for the DC experience? He hasn't had time to turn it around and he has a moron for an owner there, kinda like Richardson, but the opposite, in that he spends way too much on spoiled milk, while Richardson won't even stock the fridge!

#75 Darth Bobo

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:07 PM

I agree with Riddel that Fox was an awesome coach prior to the 2010 season. I was one of the few posters on this forum that believed that Fox would be given a competitive offer by Richardson at the end of this season, but I was wrong and I've been mulling over why that offer wasn't extended. I do not agree that the reason was money, because coaches salary are not included under any cap.

To speculate on why Fox wasn't rehired, I have to conclude that Richardson was being totally sincere in his last press conference: Fox is loyal to his veteran players to a fault. One aspect of that loyalty was that rookies didn't get much of a shot, but there were other manifestations of that loyalty too.

On the positive side, Fox's loyalty was a great personal trait as a human being, we could see it in the way he solved personnel issues face-to-face with players out of the limelight, off the sidelines. He was a player's coach(cliche I know).

On the negative side, his loyalty was a bad professional trait. He couldn't let Dan Morgan go long after he was done. He continued to waste a spot on Dwayne Jarrett, Kerry Colbert, etc. Some of this is on the GM too, and I'm not sure what we fans do with that fact....

But Fox's lack of professional severance was excerbated this year when Richardson was essentially forced to trim an exceptionally large amount of accumulated roster fat as a businessman. This is dictated not only by the CBA, but by the fact we were losing competitive edge in a division of successful and financially robust opponents who had started from scratch in previous years. Richardson had to make a business decision, and he could choose to do it half-assed, or balls to the wall full throttle. The more committed he was, the harder the change would be for Fox.

The complex repurcussions of the uncapped year, plus the vital need for a fortified negotiating position against the NFLPA was a double whammy at odds with Fox's character, and that is why I think he's gone.


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